JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

[peterb]

You might be interested in this from The Autocar Road Test Nov 1933

1933 Minor Saloon Dimensions

1933-Minor-Saloon-dimensions.jpg (216.35 KiB) Viewed 2522 times

[Jpallis001]

Thanks Peter - that was what I was looking for. The dimensions suggest a seat base 4" thick.

I thought about fitting the sprung back rest to the backboard that I made, but I think that the 'thick' backrest would move the passenger + seat base too far forward { if the seat base is 17" [front to back] - it would result in a large 'over hang' at the front.

rear back rest_both.jpg (137.73 KiB) Viewed 2481 times

The seat cover that came with the sprung backrest has a 2" ribbing

rear back rest cover_sprung.jpg (82.04 KiB) Viewed 2474 times

The seat cover that came with the rear padded backrest has a 1.5" ribbing - the same as that on the front seats.

rear backrest cover_padded.jpg (91.79 KiB) Viewed 2472 times

I think that it probably should have the thin padded backrest. All I need now is a little bit of an idea what the base should look like? I know its thickness and dimensions

[Ronald]

I don't know much about the saloon seats, but it looks to me as if what you're trying to use as a spring unit for the rear seats isn;t for your car at-all, the shape of it would suggest to me that it might be the back rest for a 2seater, with the 'stepped' wider bit being the bit that goes above the rear arch..... if that makes sense.....
I suspect that the seat base would originally have has a simple rectangular shaped unit, with springs of maybe 3inch in height, along with wadding padding etc....
pretty sure that the rear backrest would have been just padded, there is no need for springs in there.....
for reference the 'mesh' would always be at the top, with the flat bars being what would go on the base board...

Ronald. (upholsterer by trade..... NOT coach trimmer) so don;t ask!....

[Ian Grace]

John,

I think the backrest in the saloons is the same or similar to the ones in the tourers. These are very thin and not sprung - mainly horse hair I think. Max thickness is no more than 2.5 to 3 inches, I would guess. This is in contrast to the bench seat on the 2-seater which is sprung and is easily 8" thick at the thickets point. Not sure if this helps, but it may do!

All the best for Christmas, and here's hoping for no more snow for you guys in the UK. It's in the fifties and wet (what else?) here in Seattle - I'll take any amount of rain rather than snow - we survived ten winters in Michigan and so we have seen enough snow and sub-zero (in Fahrenheit!) temperatures to last a lifetime. The mountains around us here are all buried in snow, and the skiing season is in full swing, but the snow line is about 1,500' at present and we are only at about 500' at the house. I went flying on Monday and flew into snow at about 2,000' over downtown Seattle - not a nice day for a flip, but I needed to get my biannual flight review in before the end of the year.

Take care, and keep up the excellent work on the saloon.

Ian

[Jpallis001]

thanks both - I think you have convinced me that the sprung back rest has nothing to do with the saloon {it does have a 'set' in the base frame that probably is so that it could bridge some obstruction in the central area - might support the 2-Seater theory}

Re: the UK snow; yes causing chaos in the North East - fortunately have no real travel plans for the holiday period. the stories of by-gone hard winters abound - not sure what Santa Claus is going to bring!

[Jpallis001]

I must stop taking things to bits! - thought there was a bit of play on the steering box (output shaft) - dismantled it; no bushes to replace, and it does not appear too bad. Any hints/tips/advice on set-up + re-assembly?

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Also planning to have a look at the ball joints; any do's or don'ts?

[Ian Grace]

Hi John,

Not much to say about the bishop cam box - no adjustment. It is worth checking that there is no wear or sideplay in the main chassis attachment bolt or the hole in the casting through which it passes. I have had this problem in the past - even failing an MoT because of movement in the steering box. The fix is to shim or even bore and sleeve the steering box and replace the bolt. At the same time check for any sideplay of the bolt in the chassis bracket.

Looking at your photo, are you sure the drop arm is not slightly bent?

As for the track rod ends, the key point with these is to make sure that the keyhole slot in the barrel is not worn oversize to the point where the ball can pop out through the narrow end of the keyhole. There are recorded cases of this happening on the road with serious consequences.

[Trevor Wilkinson]

There is shim adjustment for the steering shaft bearings and the meshing of the peg on the drop arm shaft, also check the condition of the peg in the drop arm shaft as they tend to wear on the contact points. Replacement pegs are available. I have found the most wear tends to be between the drop arm shaft and the box, but as you say there are no bushes but i have seen them modified to take bushes and the shaft machined slightly undersize.(This mod had been done on my original box,not very well and was still the cause of the play in the box)

[Toby]

[quote="Jpallis001"]I must stop taking things to bits!

So true.....

[Ian Grace]

Trevor is right as usual! There is some end play adjustment available via the shims. More can be obtained by fitting a setscrew and locknut through the cap plate - like the earlier worm and wheel boxes had.

[Jpallis001]

thanks Both - I removed the shim between the end plate and the box; found that things were too tight so put it back. I managed to loose one ball bearing from the top race, but works well on 29 balls; sure that they always throw one in for luck! There is some play between the shaft and housing, will reassemble track rods + see if I need to do something.

Currently waiting for delivery on new king pins to see how they fit, before I attempt to hammer out the old ones.

Still waiting for the Engine Experts to let me know what they can do with the new (second-hand); re-metalled con-rods that I bought -- fingers well and truly crossed!

Started to cut up the Brown Vinyl for the seats - loads of obs on hold so looking at bodywork. Not sure where to start with these doors? are there any plans/drawings for the door frames anywhere?

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Passengers Door.jpg (67.2 KiB) Viewed 2278 times

[Ian Grace]

John,

I am not aware of any drawings that would be of any use to you. There are some three-view drawings knocking around but they are more GA drawings and give little precise detail.

Burt it looks to me as if you have enough of the original doors to refurbish as required. Good luck!

[Jpallis001]

Hi Ian - I think that my current plan is to repair the bottom of the door skins before I loose the shape. Brace the outside of the skin to a wooden backboard before I unpick the sides of the steel 'angles' that encase the ash structure (currently a lot of frame looks comprise plywood repairs). Will try hard not to unpick these angles from the door skin unless absolutely essential - a lot of the 'folds' look very weak/corroded.

Probably will try to work both doors together so that I can check the handed pieces one at a time as I cut/shape them.

The steel box section frame that has been fitted to one door might prove to be useful during assembly, not sure whether to re-fit as a strengthener? + make one for the other side?

[Ian Grace]

The steel box frame looks a good idea and would prevent the door from dropping. Saloon doors are heavy. Check the doors about ten times in the body shell before tightening eveything up!

[Jpallis001]

slight change of plan - the door skin is quite strong and is holding its shape so I have stripped one door down and removed the frame. I have enough points of reference from the old timbers to make new ones, except for the window frame. How does the window slide in the door frame? Should there be a separate steel frame with felt guide fitted? or should there be a rebate in the Ash frame, with a felt guide channel inserted to guide the rise + fall of the window? Anyone know the dimensions for the door window glass? - I have one window but suspect it is 'bespoke'!