Hi i am about to start restoring the body on my 1933 minor and i am looking for any tips to help me do it is there any good books that covers it ?
also what type of wood do you use ? is kilm dryed ash ok to work with or is air dryed ash better ?
do you use marine ply for the floors and wheel arches ?
and any tricks how to bend it ?
sorry for the questions but i have never done a ash body before
regards steve
ash frame
Moderators: Ian Grace, Will Grace
Re: ash frame
Hello Steve,
I have built about ten Minor ash frames over the years and I’m just about to start another 1931 2-seater over here in Seattle and then I have my 1933 McEvoy frame to sort out! I would be very happy to advise.
First, it makes no difference if you use kiln dried or air dried ash – but you must use ash. Air dried is great, but hard to find, and you won’t notice any difference with air dried. Second, you should find SRBP 1/2” ply for the floor – synthetic bonded birch ply. Do NOT use marine ply! It splinters terribly when being cut.
As for tools I’d recommend a good bandsaw, a jig saw for the ply with clean-cut blades, a heavy duty bench disk sander and a BIG screw driver (do NOT use cross-head screws!). Buy your ash thicknessed and finished to the thickness you need for each part and then cut the curves with the bandsaw – then sand with the disk sander, which can even be used to clean up inside curves if you use the edge of the disk carefully. This is by far the simplest way to go unless you are a master carpenter. Your biggest challenge will be the joints, but just take your time and care. Use steel screws, not brass – brass screws will break when you screw them in. When fitting screws, drill a small pilot hole in the bottom piece of ash and a hole the size of the screw shank in the top piece, and then countersink with a countersink bit. Same for ash or ply. There is no need to use any glue. The original frames didn’t use any. When cutting handed pairs of timbers, double check that you aren’t making two of the same hand – I wish I had a Pound for every time I have done this and completely wasted a timber! When making the floor boards, make up a trial set first. They won’t fit perfectly, but make a careful note of the errors and then make the proper set – they will then fit first time!
Do you have any photos of your uncovered frame? If so, perhaps you could post them here and I can then see the extent of the work and advise accordingly. If need be, send me the images and I can upload them for you.
Good luck, and keep the questions coming!
Ian
I have built about ten Minor ash frames over the years and I’m just about to start another 1931 2-seater over here in Seattle and then I have my 1933 McEvoy frame to sort out! I would be very happy to advise.
First, it makes no difference if you use kiln dried or air dried ash – but you must use ash. Air dried is great, but hard to find, and you won’t notice any difference with air dried. Second, you should find SRBP 1/2” ply for the floor – synthetic bonded birch ply. Do NOT use marine ply! It splinters terribly when being cut.
As for tools I’d recommend a good bandsaw, a jig saw for the ply with clean-cut blades, a heavy duty bench disk sander and a BIG screw driver (do NOT use cross-head screws!). Buy your ash thicknessed and finished to the thickness you need for each part and then cut the curves with the bandsaw – then sand with the disk sander, which can even be used to clean up inside curves if you use the edge of the disk carefully. This is by far the simplest way to go unless you are a master carpenter. Your biggest challenge will be the joints, but just take your time and care. Use steel screws, not brass – brass screws will break when you screw them in. When fitting screws, drill a small pilot hole in the bottom piece of ash and a hole the size of the screw shank in the top piece, and then countersink with a countersink bit. Same for ash or ply. There is no need to use any glue. The original frames didn’t use any. When cutting handed pairs of timbers, double check that you aren’t making two of the same hand – I wish I had a Pound for every time I have done this and completely wasted a timber! When making the floor boards, make up a trial set first. They won’t fit perfectly, but make a careful note of the errors and then make the proper set – they will then fit first time!
Do you have any photos of your uncovered frame? If so, perhaps you could post them here and I can then see the extent of the work and advise accordingly. If need be, send me the images and I can upload them for you.
Good luck, and keep the questions coming!
Ian
Re: ash frame
Will be starting them in about 2 weeks, after I get M 136 away - I'll be making full-size card patterns. Quicker, easier and more useful than doing drawings.
Re: ash frame
But not so practical for frame builders in England? 
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
Re: ash frame
The best patterns I ever used were the 1/4" ply patterns I had for the Semi-sports frames. I sent a set to Australia by laying them out on art card and drawing around them - I got them all onto something like three pieces of card. I then simply rolled the cards, tubed them and posted them to Oz. Worked like a dream.
We should do the same with your '32 4-seater - so we'd then have patterns for the scuttle for the rear tank '32/'33 cars as well as the 4-seater rear end. The combinaiton of the two sets of patterns would then enable someone to build any 2 or 4 seater from the 1931 to 1933 seasons.
We should do the same with your '32 4-seater - so we'd then have patterns for the scuttle for the rear tank '32/'33 cars as well as the 4-seater rear end. The combinaiton of the two sets of patterns would then enable someone to build any 2 or 4 seater from the 1931 to 1933 seasons.
Re: ash frame
Ian,
I hope that you are proposing to make patterns for you Jensen frame.
I hope that you are proposing to make patterns for you Jensen frame.
Re: ash frame
I hope that the rebuild will be the most documented I have done - in terms of patterns, photos, etc. A replica McEvoy could be made with M Type wings, and possibly even M Type side louvres. The windscreen would be a challenge, but it would make someone a superb project.
I don't have any problem with replica bodies on our cars - even McEvoys, because the Register is closely enough in touch with such projects so as to know what is original and whan is not. I'm not sure that this is the case with the hundreds of 'Chummies' and Ulsteroids out there these days.
I don't have any problem with replica bodies on our cars - even McEvoys, because the Register is closely enough in touch with such projects so as to know what is original and whan is not. I'm not sure that this is the case with the hundreds of 'Chummies' and Ulsteroids out there these days.
Re: ash frame
I now have a set of Harrys plans for 32 cars..... 4seater, 2 seater and saloon
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
Re: ash frame
I think these are 1932 4-seater, 1934 2-seater and OHC saloon? I have these three sets down in my basement somewhere, which I got from Harry about 30 years ago! They are nice general arrangement drawings, but you would be hard pushed to build an accurate body from them.
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microlight
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:36 pm
Re: ash frame
I have a 1937/8 Morris 8 Series 2 that I am renovating. It was a exported to Australia as a 2 seater drop head rolling chassis. The body was made in OZ, possibly by Holden or the like so it is not as per the British versions in some places although it generally looks like the originals. It was reimported in the 1990's as 4 seater open tourer after a serious rebuild in Australia. Unfortunately the work was not done properly & the cross car torsion bar, necessary for the 4 seater, was not embodied in the conversion & the door posts were not supported sufficiently resulting in the ash frame giving out due to the weight & leverage of the doors when opened. The 2 seater tourers relied on a ply bulkhead to support the two door posts across the car. I had several queries regarding the serviceability of my car so having talked to a company that is big in classic cars with particular emphasis on all Morris 8's I traillered the car up to their workshop in Oldham for them to inspect. They were extremely helpful on their information & assistance, in fact they can supply most parts for Morris 8's, particularly chassis & body steelwork & ash frame members also they are one of the official major sources of parts for the Morris Register. They are Vintage Carriages, Unit 3/4 Brighton Mill, Spencer Street, Oldham, UK. OL1 3QF. tel 0161 633 3421 e-mail assistance@vintagecarriages.net . The company is run by Paul, Graham & June Naylor. June does the admin & a lot of the upholstery requirements while the men do all the parts manufacturing & fitting out of cars in their care. I cannot speak highly enough of their capabilities, the quality of the parts they produce & the work they perform on any classic vehicle plus their knowledge of Morris 8's & any part of these cars is unlimited.
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Mike Stubbings
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:41 pm
Re: ash frame
Hi Steve,
Always use air dried ash preferably as it retains its flexability better than kiln dried which can take on a brittleness when kilned. Use the best Finnish birch ply for floors and where ply is required. Woodworm love it but if you give it a thorough coating of cuprinol that will do the trick. I would soak an ash frame as well. I use to soak them then let them dry for a week and then give them another soaking,both ash and ply. Good luck.
retired coachbuilder. Mike
Always use air dried ash preferably as it retains its flexability better than kiln dried which can take on a brittleness when kilned. Use the best Finnish birch ply for floors and where ply is required. Woodworm love it but if you give it a thorough coating of cuprinol that will do the trick. I would soak an ash frame as well. I use to soak them then let them dry for a week and then give them another soaking,both ash and ply. Good luck.
retired coachbuilder. Mike
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Jim Reader
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:36 pm
Re: ash frame
Hi Steve-
As for books, as a complete beginner I have found the following useful in explaining how ash-framed bodies of this era were constructed, and how to rebuild them:
'Practical Classics on 1930s Car Restoration' (Brooklands Books, 1987, ISBN 1 869 82685X). As far as I can find out it's no longer in print, but there seem to be good second-hand copies available from all the usual suspects (e.g. Amazon).
It's a collection of reprints from the Practical Classics mag on their restoration of a 1931 Standard Swallow saloon: a more complex and sophisticated body than on most of our Minors but very useful all the same, with plenty of advice about other aspects (chassis, mechanical etc.).
Jim
As for books, as a complete beginner I have found the following useful in explaining how ash-framed bodies of this era were constructed, and how to rebuild them:
'Practical Classics on 1930s Car Restoration' (Brooklands Books, 1987, ISBN 1 869 82685X). As far as I can find out it's no longer in print, but there seem to be good second-hand copies available from all the usual suspects (e.g. Amazon).
It's a collection of reprints from the Practical Classics mag on their restoration of a 1931 Standard Swallow saloon: a more complex and sophisticated body than on most of our Minors but very useful all the same, with plenty of advice about other aspects (chassis, mechanical etc.).
Jim