To restore or not to restore

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Ian Grace
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To restore or not to restore

Post by Ian Grace »

Looking at Halbe's great progress on his fabric saloon encourages me to reply with some observations about restoration in general, but I didn't want to divert the thread, so I started this new one.

The point I wanted to make was that I am delighted to see several very high quality Minor restorations under way - in the past there have been too many 'restorations' done on the cheap - probably because the end value didn't justify the cost of a thorough restoration, so only those who didn't primarily care about being able to get their money back took the full restoration route, and this is still true today - you could say that Minors are not worth restoring. :?

On the other hand, all to many cars have been pulled to pieces in the initial enthusiasm of acquisition, but remain in pieces to this day. While many of these cars had to be stripped to the bare chassis, many more did not. I would like to see more Minors brought up to MoT standard and used, and then subjected to a 'running restoration' if at all possible. Halbe's car would have been very borderline for this approach, and he obviously has the wherewithal to undertake a full restoration in a reasonable amount of time. But for many others, the urge to strip to the chassis should be resisted unless completely necessary and in the knowledge that there is a reasonable chance of completing a full rebuild in less than a decade or so.

So, what would you do with this:

Image

Or how about this ...

Image

This Model A Ford was assembled from scrap parts discarded by other restorers and is now used to tour the USA in support of the troops. I took this photo at a Model A rally in Grand Rapids a few years ago. Yes, it runs perfectly! No, we don't have MoT tests here!
Highlander
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Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by Highlander »

I have never, in 55 years, gone down the 'last nut and bolt' restoration route. I am known round here as the oily rag man. I have restored (?) many moror bikes and cars. I get them running and if no problem use the vehicle and do it up on the hoof. Things like seats and paintwork can be done in the winter months although I coach paint (brush) and like doing that on warm sunny days. The Minor Saloon you pictured I have thought long and hard over purchasing. To me the price looked about right (£3500), but at that price you would have to run the car straight away and do it up as you go along. Looking at the photo it would require tyres (I have three), history tells me it ran well before being layed up, so with luck a couple of days should have it running. A good clean would only take a day. I cannot see how yellow the windows are but is that a MOT failure? I could have that saloon up and going in a week. I like cars to look old but cared for - some motorcyles I have seen are over restored and were never that good when new. Having said all that - me is me - I have freinds who cannot wait to take whatever it is apart, and to be fair to them, they get it all back together again. This takes time and in the meantime I have had a good year motoring. This is a good topic - Come on Paul!!!!! Highlander.
prharris25
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Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by prharris25 »

Here I am Alister...just back from a week in Swanage touring with the Minor 1000....sheer delight.
I totally agree with your sentiments. I don't care how well they have been done, a restored car never feels QUITE the same as one which has never been totally apart. There are of course times when you have no choice but to do a chassis up job, as I did all those years ago with DF 9053. Generally though, the oily rag approach is best and if I had not decided to keep only one pre-war car in future, I would be racing you to that fabric saloon, can of Rustola and rag in hand...what a delightful little car.
That wealthy but so genuine enthusaist, the late Alan Clark said exactly the same thing...his Ghost was a joy to behold although I expect Alister will tell me it was a bitsa !!!
Ian Grace
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Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by Ian Grace »

Paul, I presume you know that DF uis up for grabs again?

Tanking about restorations, I'll soon need to start planning the rebuild of the McEvoy. It is far too far gone to contemplate a running restoration, but I think I might tackle it differently to the Semi-sports. I rebuilt the Semi-sports literally from the chassis up - so that the rolling chassis was done and engine installed while the body was more or less still in the bare ash frame stage. Having completed the car, I reckon 90% of the work goes into the bodywork, and only about 10% into the running gear (sorry Halbe!). Also, if you do the chassis first, then it can get badly scratched and dirtied up if you do the body on the chassis afterwards. So I am thinking of fully restoring the body, upholstery, hood, etc. with the body on the chassis, then putting it to one side before starting on the chassis. But I don't know if I have the strength of mind to carry out this plan. Chassis work is so easy (by comparison) and restored chassis look superb in the woerkshop.

Has anyone else tacked a rebuild this way?
DF9053
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Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by DF9053 »

Ian,

I think your idea is a good one, it also has the added advantage of keeping and warrenties in place closer to actually using the car.

To some extent this is my approach with the M type - although clearly I did not start the restoration. I have however taken it back down to the chassis and then built it quickly back up to a bodied rolling stage dealing with the range of mechanical issues that have arrisen. I am further forced down this route due to the problems I have getting enough bits to build an engine (although I have cracked that one now!) so intend now to completely finish the body, wireing etc leaving only the engine and gearbox to go in as a final step. With the body on the chassis there might be the odd pitfall, however as you should have space to store the body off the chassis your plan could be easier.

One thing of concern is of course the cost, while there is more time in the body building there is more money/cost in the mechnical bits.

DF was and I hope still is a lovely car with plenty of character, so despite the extensive rebuild in the late 1960's the approach managed to retain the charm. I hope that DF finds a good new home perhaps back on mainland UK.

cheers
Jeremy
Ian Grace
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Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by Ian Grace »

Hi Jeremy,

Good to hear from you - I noticed you online about half an hour ago - it's about 1130 pm here, so I sometimes see early morning posts made in the UK before I go to bed here in Seattle - all very surreal!

With the Semi-sports, I rebuilt the rolling chassis in Germany - long before I got round to tacking the body - in between, the car was shipped to the UK, then into Pickfords storage for a couple of years until we bought the house in Grand Rapids and then out here, so by the time I came to finish the body I decided to strip everything down more or less to the chassis frame and go through it all again! I'm hoping that the Mac won't take anything like so long - it was about 14 years from start to finish with the Semi-sports - and in three countries. I calculated that since I bought it, it has done about 10,000 miles - about 500 on the road, and the rest on trailers, aboard ships, in transporters, containers and trains!

While on the topic of moving cars around, can anyone suggest the best way to get the Semi-sports from Sevenoaks to the Cotswolds and back in July? I would drive it of course, but I am extremely limited on time in the UK and won't have time to collect or deliver. And getting around London without using the M25 or A25 would be interesting. I'd be happy to use a professional car shipper if anyone knows of a good one, and if it doesn't break the bank. Any suggestions?

If you have any contact details for who is selling DF, and what they want for it, etc., I'll put an ad on the site.
ashford
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Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by ashford »

I came across this on youtube that reminded me of Ians posting. Its the feral sports car club of Australia. A quick glance at their website shows that they pride themselves in driving old very patinated cars that have had the minimum of work done to get them on the road. The vidio includes some adventurous vintage motoring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R0pdedJUxY
Ian Grace
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Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by Ian Grace »

Wonderful stuff! :D
Ronald
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Location: Dorset.........

Re: To restore or not to restore

Post by Ronald »

MT doesn't look to be in such bad condition after-all.....LOL.......
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