Hundred Pound ash frames

[Ian Grace]

I shall be starting work shortly on the Hundred Pound Minor over here in Monroe. It will require some ash frame work, but the original frame appears to be all there and good for reuse or patterns. I occured to me that this might offer a good opportunity to create a good set of engineering drawing and/or flat patterns for the frame so that a batch of frames could be contemplated at some point in the future. The advantage of the Hundred Pound 2-seater body is that it will fit any SWB Minor chassis - OHC or SV and is very probably the simplest of the original Morris bodies to reproduce. Even the windscreen is single pane and therefore simpler to remanufactue than any other. The body is certainly far simpler than the Semi-sports. There are several OHC Minors with Hundred Pound bodies fitted, and their light weight makes them eminently suitable for VSCC and Light car events, where the date of body design is of no interest, provided the chassis is overhead cam. Most notable among these is Martin Shaw's car, which has been very successfully campaigned by Sue Woodward (nee Hirst) over the years. Less well-known is Frank Higgins' car, but this is now in retirement up in the Lake District. And then there is Simon Hodgins' example.

It seems to me that there are numerous survivivng chassis with rotten or non-existent bodies, and so I'd be interested to know if there is any serious interest out there in co-ordinating the manufacture of a small batch of ash frames from one of the specialists in the UK.

In the past, Enrique Llinares produced a few CMS frames, and I had a batch of three Semi-sports bodies built back in the eighties. But there are no bodies available whatsoever for Minors these days - isn't it about time this changed?

[Tony Gamble]

Coincidentally , Ian , I have asked Father Christmas for a band saw ........ to attempt to copy a semi-sports body whilst I have the Roy Hogg semi sports in the "skeleton" condition.

Don't "watch this space" as it will probably end up looking like a van !!

Tony G

[Ian Grace]

Good luck with the bandsaw Tony - and count your fingers regularly!

The first body I built was a Hundred Pound 2-seater frame - for John Earthrowl. That was back in the early eighties and John is getting near to finishing the car now... He joined the VMR at Beaulieu last year.

Then I did the scuttle and sills for Clive Hamilton-Gould's tourer which seems to have stood up to the stresses and strains of winning innumerable driving tests. Then a complete 1929 tourer frame for Peter Hills. I had three Semi-sports frames commissioned by a local Rolls Royce/Bentley restorer when posted to Brize Norton in 1982 when I owned JN 570. One completed frame for JN (and made from its original timbers as patterns). This is now with Mike Jones. A second frame in kit form is on RFP 347B which was a bitza OHC Minor I owned at Brize which had a '34 2-seater body on it. I sold this car when we were posted to Malvern to Rick Jones along with one of the ash frames which he fitted. The car ended up in the Haynes Motor Museum at Sparkford. The third body went to David King and it also went as a kit which I think Dave Cooksey assembled for him. The car has not progressed since as David spends much of his time in Canada on business these days. In Hastings one summer I built a replica body for Graham Skillen's Brooklands Marendaz Special which was a fun exercise. That must also have been in the eighties. Then I built a fourth Semi-sports frame when living in Germany for David Mackenzie from the JN 570 ply patterns (which I still have). David sold this to David Roscoe shortly before he died and it is now on David Roscoe's GU 1342 Semi-sports rep. Finally I built another complete Semi-sports frames from the same patterns for the Bed-Pan, although this frame includes about ten original timbers from this car and possibly some of JN 570's original bits - they got mixed up in storage at some point, and also with the remains of the rotten TY 7961. I finally ditched the tail of this car's body when we moved here from Michigan. The rest of the car is now with Jim Wood.

The Semi-sports frame is no more complex than the Hundred Pounder, except for the tail, and in particular the two timbers (actually four - two pairs jointed together) which form the shape of the tail and take the pin beading to the sternpost. These are absolute buggers to get right as there is no room for artistic license since they have to match in perfectly with the wheel arches, etc. Not only are they double curved, but they are tapered and they twist, and are also made up of pairs of timbers lap jointed together, so these joints have to be perfect too.

[Tony Gamble]

So .......... quite easy really !!

Gulp.


Tony G

Perhaps ending up as a van is on the cards.

[Highlander]

Ian,, Anygood at fitting kitchens? The last photo looks wonderful - well done. Soon be time for a wee dram. Highlander.

[Sam Christie]

I think it would be a very good thing if £100 bodies (especially at an affordable price) were available for it would surely bring a greater number of Minors back to the road. So many Minors have saloon bodies which are so far gone that they will never return to the road except in sports/ semi sports/ £100 form.

I guess a big problem about building what might amount to a "special" is the temptation is to create another 'M-type MG' which would cost much the same to build. Many Austin Sevens have become cheap but very cheerful specials such as Ulster replica/specials and it seems to have helped stimulate interest and the supply of parts in general and competition in particular.

I wonder, would there be any potential for an ultra cheap doorless glass fibre body for a Minor ? I understand such bodies exist based on the Austin Ulster. I know a glass fibre body would be a humble substitute for a conventional ash frame but it would not prevent the chassis from one day gaining an authentic body.

One idea might be to produce a body based for example on the semi sports Minor (which could still be fabric covered) but without doors to both simplify construction and give a 'sporty' appearance. The guards could be cut away style like a Double Twelve M-type. I think the art would be to produce something attractive but understated. When the owner could afford a conventional body he might sell the plastic one and help yet another Minor return to the road that much sooner.

Could a glass fibre body be produced at a worthwhile saving on conventional construction ?

[Ian Grace]

Sam,

Another possibility would be to design a simple body to be made in ash with all single curves so anyone could panel it in ali. I paneled the scuttle of the Bed-Pan myself - never done anything like it, and it went on easily. Just need some nibblers, a tack hammer and tacks. Sides could be cut down like the McEvoy to eliminate doors. The body I built for Graham Skillen's Marendaz Brooklands prototype was simply a ply floor, hoops made of ply laminates and some simple longerons, although the paneling was much trickier. Here it is at Brooklands:

[Simon]

Ian,
Do not forget that on some of the Jensen / McEvoy bodies did not have a drivers door, it was an optional extra !!

[halbe]

Would't it be fun to give the A7 ulster body a decent chassis/engine and than give them a run for their money

Halbe

[ashford]

Would't it be fun to give the A7 ulster body a decent chassis/engine and than give them a run for their money

Halbe

I think James Peacop is already giving the ulsters a run for their money in his M type special. He was quicker than all the unsupercharged sports ulsters and most of those in the racing car class at this years Precott. It would be great to see a more equal balance on the grids though - there is already a great friendly rivalry among the ulsters.
The beauty of ulster bodies is while people all start with essentially the same body all the cars end up unique by the time they are finished - some are out and out racers while others are tourers or both.

The angles chosen in the original publicity photos for the £100 minor certainly look very sporty but from other angles it can look a bit fat. They may not suit a racer but having said that there have been many a A7 chummy that has been stripped down for racing and they I don't think they look too bad at all. After all the A7 supersports was based on a chummy.
Perhaps any new body design should allow for a modified lower longer steering rake in the same way ulsters do.
The vscc might not like the idea of a batch of new design bodies but they couldn't object to copying an original design.

[Mike Stubbings]

Hi All, Has anyone thought that in building all these special bodies, whatever form they take. It is one more source of spares removed and another car to find spares for. In the end we finish up having to get spares made which then would make a Morris Minor an expensive hobby. Mike.

[prharris25]

I agree with Mike. It would be a pity if the Minor world ended up like the Bullnose Morris fraternity where large numbers seem to have poorly made and ill-fitting replica bodies and consist of parts from numerous other vehicles. Not my idea of the vintage movement but then I'm so old that I can remember things as they used to be !!!

[Sam Christie]

But what if on the other hand lively intrerest competition and diversity creates a situation like the Austin Seven? Just check out what is available for Austin Sevens and the prices. Is braking up as many Minors as possible to maintain a dwindling few cheaply really for the best ?

[Ian Grace]

I think the situation right now is that there are too many bodyless chassis going to waste - not being broken up for spares, but never to see the open road again either. That's why I suggested the Hundred Pound body in the first place. It is the cheapest way to create a car to original Minor spec. from a rolling chassis. Second option is to make available a really cheap body to get more original chassis back on the road. Personally,I would far rather see more cars on the road, even if they don't have their original bodies, than dozens of them stored away for lack of a body.

Surely it is better to get an 80 year old car back on the road than to break it up for spares, after surviving this long?

[cammy]

Absolutely agree. At least it keeps all the bits in one place. If a body is so bad that it would involve horrendous costs to renovate thenit seems to me that putting on a different body is a much better option than creating another pile of spares. Ultimately this course of action would surely lead to the last surviving Minor.