Does anyone have a spare pair of front road springs for VG ?
Halbe
Front springs
Moderators: Ian Grace, Will Grace
Re: Front springs
Halbe,
You are the second owner currently looking for front springs. I just spoke to Mike Dowley to see if his supplier of M front springs could help. He tells me that road spring manufacture is getting very difficult. He only has one supplier now and they are commercial/truck spring makers who are not all that excited about making little MG springs in small quantities. Another problem is that the 1 1/4" steel has to be rolled at about a ton at a time, and they are also not prepared to make all the exact thicknesses - so they use 1/4" instead of 7/32", etc.
We discussed the wisdom of fitting M front springs to Minors, but were not sure of the exact height difference when loaded with the car's weight. I know that the M front springs were not fitted with rubber bump stops because of the reduced gap below the chassis rail. If anyone is desperate, M front springs would at least get you mobile - and probably improve cornering!
Mike has M fronts in stock for GBP 77-25, and rears - which ARE the same as Minors - for GBP 95. They come without the shocker brackets, so you will need to re-use your old ones.
Hope this is some help.
You are the second owner currently looking for front springs. I just spoke to Mike Dowley to see if his supplier of M front springs could help. He tells me that road spring manufacture is getting very difficult. He only has one supplier now and they are commercial/truck spring makers who are not all that excited about making little MG springs in small quantities. Another problem is that the 1 1/4" steel has to be rolled at about a ton at a time, and they are also not prepared to make all the exact thicknesses - so they use 1/4" instead of 7/32", etc.
We discussed the wisdom of fitting M front springs to Minors, but were not sure of the exact height difference when loaded with the car's weight. I know that the M front springs were not fitted with rubber bump stops because of the reduced gap below the chassis rail. If anyone is desperate, M front springs would at least get you mobile - and probably improve cornering!
Mike has M fronts in stock for GBP 77-25, and rears - which ARE the same as Minors - for GBP 95. They come without the shocker brackets, so you will need to re-use your old ones.
Hope this is some help.
Re: Front springs
Ian,
Maybe it's possible to change the curve of the MGM spring to suit our cars????
I'm also asking around over here for a company witch might retemper leave spring's
If I'm successful I'll let everybody know.
Thanks Halbe
Maybe it's possible to change the curve of the MGM spring to suit our cars????
I'm also asking around over here for a company witch might retemper leave spring's
If I'm successful I'll let everybody know.
Thanks Halbe
Re: Front springs
Halbe,
The problem with retermpering M front springs is that the end result will be a shorter spring, so the shackle will sit at the incorrect angle. In other words, the mailn leaf of a Minor spring must be slightly longer than the main leaf of an M spring. I have't calculated the exact change in angle though! So it might be a better fix than simply fitting unchanged M springs.
The problem with retermpering M front springs is that the end result will be a shorter spring, so the shackle will sit at the incorrect angle. In other words, the mailn leaf of a Minor spring must be slightly longer than the main leaf of an M spring. I have't calculated the exact change in angle though! So it might be a better fix than simply fitting unchanged M springs.
Re: Front springs
Ian,
It might be worthwhile having a look at www.eatonsprings.comwho are somewhere naer you!!!
It might be worthwhile having a look at www.eatonsprings.comwho are somewhere naer you!!!
Re: Front springs
Ian,
If the MG spring get's a little too short, would it be possible to change the position of the rear shacklepoint on the chassis forward just a little bit ? Or is this line of thinking not the way to go? how far forward would the front axle go?
Just a thought ,it will probably never work
I'm also looking for people who restore vintage horse-drawn carriage's , they might have some different idea's where to go for leave springs.
halbe
If the MG spring get's a little too short, would it be possible to change the position of the rear shacklepoint on the chassis forward just a little bit ? Or is this line of thinking not the way to go? how far forward would the front axle go?
Just a thought ,it will probably never work
I'm also looking for people who restore vintage horse-drawn carriage's , they might have some different idea's where to go for leave springs.
halbe
Re: Front springs
I'm going to run some calculations tonight to see how much longer the main leaf would have to be compared to an M spring, given certain assumptions regarding the increased curvature.
The axle position shouldn't be an issue if using retempered M springs - I suspect the fore/aft movement is only a small fraction of an inch. So, yes, moving the rear spring hanger forward slightly would work, and be a virtually undetectable mod.
The axle position shouldn't be an issue if using retempered M springs - I suspect the fore/aft movement is only a small fraction of an inch. So, yes, moving the rear spring hanger forward slightly would work, and be a virtually undetectable mod.
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chris lambert
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Re: Front springs
Halbe,
There are at least two companies in the UK that will re-set, repair etc. car springs, follow the link below:
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/restorat ... ioning.htm
Chris
There are at least two companies in the UK that will re-set, repair etc. car springs, follow the link below:
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/restorat ... ioning.htm
Chris
Re: Front springs
Brost forge as Chris has listed is the name most people come up with when you mention springs. They have been going for years.
Another possibility is fenix springs. They use to advertise austin seven spring manufacture in the automobile. Their website advestises springs for 'vintage cars' but I get the impression they may not be equiped for batch production.
http://www.fenixcarriages.co.uk/homepage.htm
Another supplier who may do M type springs is Orson equipment:
Address: Dudley, West Midlands, DY2 0UW, UK
Telephone: work(01384) 241717
Web: http://www.orson-equipment.com
My father recently bought two front springs for his PA Mg from Orson. They were very reasonably priced. The eyes are not bushed (as standard) and they come complete with roller clips and locating dimples. They don't have the origianl oval ends to the leaves but are straight cut.
There are some interesting posts about springs on the triple m forum; One thing to watch with the roller clips is that they shouldn't clamp the leaves tight; the rollers on the clamp bolts should roll against the leaves only when under load.
There is also some debate as to how springs should be greased. Apparently amy vehicles never had grease put between the leaves as it was thought it caused them to break. Im not sure of the thinking behind this - something to do with trapping dirt? On the PA we have used graphite grease.
Another possibility is fenix springs. They use to advertise austin seven spring manufacture in the automobile. Their website advestises springs for 'vintage cars' but I get the impression they may not be equiped for batch production.
http://www.fenixcarriages.co.uk/homepage.htm
Another supplier who may do M type springs is Orson equipment:
Address: Dudley, West Midlands, DY2 0UW, UK
Telephone: work(01384) 241717
Web: http://www.orson-equipment.com
My father recently bought two front springs for his PA Mg from Orson. They were very reasonably priced. The eyes are not bushed (as standard) and they come complete with roller clips and locating dimples. They don't have the origianl oval ends to the leaves but are straight cut.
There are some interesting posts about springs on the triple m forum; One thing to watch with the roller clips is that they shouldn't clamp the leaves tight; the rollers on the clamp bolts should roll against the leaves only when under load.
There is also some debate as to how springs should be greased. Apparently amy vehicles never had grease put between the leaves as it was thought it caused them to break. Im not sure of the thinking behind this - something to do with trapping dirt? On the PA we have used graphite grease.
Re: Front springs
Fitting M springs on a Minor is fine as long as you don't mind the car being a bit lower. However I found I needed to fit an M steering box arm because all the suspension is nearer the chassis. Minor saloons would probably need the M coupe rear springs which are more substantial. When I had my springs re-set, I just found someone through the Yellow Pages. They told me they could make new ones if required but we never went into the finer details of leaf thickness etc. This was five or more years ago and the price was around £25/30 per spring. It's certainly a lot easier if you can find someone local, and often cheaper.
Ian
Ian
Re: Front springs
Ian,
Interesting point re the steering arm. I believe the arm to be the same on all worm and wheel boxes - fitted to M's or Minors (unless you know more!), but that a piece is carved out of the track rod to stop it fouling the arm (because the steering column is raked, pushing the drop arm forward). Or is it that the drag link and end is fitted under the steering box on the M. Or both?
Now you've got me thinking about my McEvoy which also has a lengthened and raked steering column just like the M, but has the later Bishop cam box and straight drop arm.
Here's the arrangement - not very clear, I'm afraid. I'll be interested to take a much closer look when it arrives at VMR HQ ere long.
Interesting point re the steering arm. I believe the arm to be the same on all worm and wheel boxes - fitted to M's or Minors (unless you know more!), but that a piece is carved out of the track rod to stop it fouling the arm (because the steering column is raked, pushing the drop arm forward). Or is it that the drag link and end is fitted under the steering box on the M. Or both?
Now you've got me thinking about my McEvoy which also has a lengthened and raked steering column just like the M, but has the later Bishop cam box and straight drop arm.
Here's the arrangement - not very clear, I'm afraid. I'll be interested to take a much closer look when it arrives at VMR HQ ere long.
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Re: Front springs
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Last edited by halbe on Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Front springs
I've found a firm in Holland who'll do the springs!!
Apparently there is an old guy still working there who know's what he is doing and repairs/makes springs for the Dutch MMM people.
I'll bring the front springs next week, But does anyone know the distance between the two eyes of the springs? (ly+lx) and the distance from the line down to the spring (PH)
Is (ly+lx) the same as for the MGM ?
This is for the unloaded spring
Halbe
Apparently there is an old guy still working there who know's what he is doing and repairs/makes springs for the Dutch MMM people.
I'll bring the front springs next week, But does anyone know the distance between the two eyes of the springs? (ly+lx) and the distance from the line down to the spring (PH)
Is (ly+lx) the same as for the MGM ?
This is for the unloaded spring
Halbe
Last edited by halbe on Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Front springs
Ian Grace,
On the Jensen I found that the arm from the steering box was wearing away the track rod, which is hollow not solid, becaused of the raked steering column. To get over the problem I refixed the track rod under the steering arms at each wheel. I believe this is what the M types do but I have not checked it out. Perhaps Chris Lambert could check this out.
On the Jensen I found that the arm from the steering box was wearing away the track rod, which is hollow not solid, becaused of the raked steering column. To get over the problem I refixed the track rod under the steering arms at each wheel. I believe this is what the M types do but I have not checked it out. Perhaps Chris Lambert could check this out.
Re: Front springs
Simon. Thanks. I think this is the correct setup for a raked column - Mac or M.