9/44 CWPs anyone?

[Ian Grace]

Is there any interest in organizing a batch of thse for our OHC Minors and M Types? Ken Martin tells me that Mike Dowley is unlikely to order any more, but there is a specialist company advertising in the VSCC Bulletin who could make them for us. The one-off price is GBP 800 per set, BUT this would come tumbling down if we could co-ordinate a good batch.

Many, if not most vintage Minors are currently running on 8/43, 7/37 or sundry other lower ratios. If there is any significant interest, I'll gather some price break quotes.

[Sam Christie]

Ian,
I believe the man to speak to is Roger Furneaux who seems (in part as a labour of love) to be able to have these produced to sell for about £300 and no VAT. He trades as "Mad Metrics" and I found his ad on a Y-type MG site.

[Ian Grace]

Hi Sam,

Do you know whether he may be interested in doing a batch at a discount price? Ken Martin needs one set, and I could do with two. I wonder what the price would be for - say - a batch o0f ten sets?

[1936morriseight]

Ian,

see: http://www.mgcars.org/mgccy/pdf/madmetrica4.pdf

Mad Metrics July 2005 price List

Jeff
1936morriseight

[Sam Christie]

H Ian,

When I 'phoned Roger a couple of months ago he explained that he has batches of CWPs made because this suits the manufacturer. Oddly enough (if I understood correctly) the sets in a batch do not all need to be the same ratio. I did not ask if any saving could be made on a larger order.

I should add that I am not sure if he has offers 9/44 as such, but a similar very suitable ratio.
I ended up buying an unused second hand CW&P (via a third party) which had come from Roger. The ratio is slightly different with fewer but stronger teeth - ie., suitable ratio but stronger.

I will try to contact Roger again to talk over the possible options.

[Ian Grace]

Hi Sam,

I e-mailed Roger to ask if and how he can help. His other ratios at GBP 285 seem very reasonable. I presume they are helical cut, not straight. My gearbox makes enough noise as it is - without the back axle joining in the chorus!

[Ian Grace]

Bit more info. I just spoke to Mike Dowley. He uses the same supplier as Roger, but remember that Mike sponsors the VMR quite heavily every year, so I'd prefer to use him where we can. He currently has CWPs in stock with ratios 8/39, 8/40 and 8/41 - about 15 sets of each. He would be interested in doing another batch of 9/44s. He has had two batches of ten sets made in the past - not much discount with such low quantities though.

I'll make contact with the MMM Register and see if there is any demand among their members with a view to co-ordinating a decent batch through Mike at a hopefully sub-stratospheric price. The GBP 285 price from Roger reflects TA quantities - so don't expect such a good price for 9/44s.

If you think you may be interested, albeit at an unknown price (!), please put your hands up.

[Ken Martin]

Ian
Thanks very much for taking this up matter with your usual energy after my email corespondence with you. It would be really good if something came of it. The difference between using the lower ratio sv Minor/Morris Eight etc cw/pinnion sets is quite noticeable with the ohc engine. The potential improved acceleration is hardly decernable, but the lower comfortable cruising speed is. A simple piece of arithmetic shows that the top speed is affected by about 5mph when using an 8/43 ration final drive compared to the standard 9/44 (ie about 10% speed differential throughout.)
I am hoping...!
Ken

[Ken Martin]

One further point of clarification relating to Ian's last posting. The Crown wheel and pinnion set ratios that Mike Dowley has in stock are for 1933-35 MG MMM cars. These do not fit Minors without some modification as the crown wheel and pinnions are larger than those used in the Minor/Eight cars.
Ken

[chris lambert]

I have one of these fitted to the Coachbuilt Saloon and it did require some work (very little to be honest) with a file for it to fit (very snugly) in my original Minor diff housing.
Chris

[Ken Martin]

The problem with the c1933-35 MG MMM larger final drive gears is that they require an extended differential case nosing. The casing size is the same but an alloy spacer approx. 0.25 inches thick is added to the front of the pinnion housing along with the adjusting shims. The connection to the standard MInor propshaft is therefore squeezed by about 0.25 inches. I assume that if this is ignored then the fabirc coupling has to take up this discrepancy by further distortion. Otherwise the prop shaft should ideally be shortened to suit.
The attached picture clarifies where the 0.25ins comes from.
Ken

[ian judd]

I hestitate to mention this, but there are quite a few Minors and MGs running around with postwar Minor diff units. T type owners are particularly keen because of the strength of it and the useful variety of gear ratios. As far as I can gather an 1/8th" needs to be taken off the alloy casing so the half-shafts line up and the original early diffential gears put in place of the later ones so that the original half-shafts can be used. The hole in the back axle has to be slightly enlarged (a straight fit on a T). It is not dissimilar in looks.
I have bought myself a unit to have a go at some point. It cost the princely sum of £23. I am rather dubious about the 9/44 gears - such tiny teeth; I would use a 7/37 which is pretty close. I am using a 8/43 at present which is fine in hilly West Yorkshire.

Ian

[Ken Martin]

I agree that the 9/44 gears are fragile - that is presumably why they were changed. On the other hand by the time we all used them they were very old and I would hope that modern maufactured examples would be able to see us all out. Mike Dowley runs his MG M on 9/44 and he acknowledges that it suits the car much better than 8/43. I am currently running a 7/37 Morris Eight unit in my saloon after a 9/44 breakage last year. This knocks about 8% off the comfortable top cruising speed and is noticable after years of using 9/44. Even here in the Marlborough Downs I prefer 9/44. I therefore hope that enough people add their names to Ian's list to justify Mike D getting a batch made.
I hadn't heard about the post war Minor diff conversions - I thought these were hypoid arrangements - the later Morris 1000 was. Surely these aren't suitable for early Minors? Is there confusion with Morris Eight Series E types which were built up to the introduction of the Minor in 1947?
Ken

[ian judd]

Ken,
Yes, the Minor 1000 types are hypoid so the pinion is set slightly lower in the casing. There are usually a couple on ebay if you want to see what they look like. I have never been fortunate enough to have a 9/44 in my car so it's interesting to hear your comments. I realise now that the 7/37 is much closer to the 8/43 than it is to 9/44 so using one won't make a lot of difference. As you say, with modern materials a 9/44 ought to be a lot stronger the originals. From what people have told me it would appear that the condition of the bearings is absolutely critical, so even when using an old unit it's worth having it checked by a transmission expert; something I never did in the past, which is probably why I managed to chew up a few.

Ian

[Ian Grace]

Talking about setting up a diff., there is a very detailed article by Jack Prior in the Members' Area of the website.