Following Ians comments about the copper and asbestos washer for sealing the exhaust pipe, I found it impossible to source any. I enquired to S&V, and bought a couple of M type ones which were totally the wrong size and shape for the Minor. I managed to cobble something up using asbestos string and exhaust cement, but as a final solution I had some made which are 1.7/8in o/d X 1.1/8in id X 5/32in thick. I have no idea if this is the correct size, but this was the size which fitted my manifold. I had a batch of 10 made, and they worked out at about half the price of the MG ones at just under £5 each. This company will make any gasket, and do a superb job. E,Dobson & Co (Gaskets)Ltd. Keighley. Yorkshire. 01535-607257 http://www.dobsongasket.com. If anyone needs a brand new M type gasket for £8 including postage to the UK, please let me know. Similarly, 5 of the Minor gaskets are available for £6 each if anyone is in need.
Roger.
Exhaust.....
Moderators: Ian Grace, Will Grace
Re: Exhaust.....
Last edited by RLucke on Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
Roger Lucke
Re: Exhaust.....
Great stuff!
Halbe your picture shows exactly the same silencer as my car, and from what Ian says we can get these silencers from the Cooke Group. An alternative might be Gideon Booth.
If the Cooke Group do silencers would they do the pipes as well? Although from the sounds of it the M type rear pipe from Sports and Vintage would work. That just leaved the front pipe to solve.
The tail pipe on DF is bigger 1 1/4 inside and fits over the silencer and gives it a real vintage thump, which is great for such a small engine, is this an M type pipe?
Steel pipe is quite easy to buy in lengths and bends in a variety of diameters (Deamon Tweaks, Merlin Motorsport), I am not sure that copper exhausts are legal in the UK due to the resonance in the pipe. We would still need to weld on the reinforcing ring at the front if we could get the right diameter and bend, perhaps the Cooke Group is worth an ask?
I tried not to use a gas ring for a while, the movement between the engine and the chassis to which the exhaust is firmly fixed just breaks the joint all the time so had to put it back despite its rather poor state. Roger's gasket firm sounds like they can solve that for us - should we get some made up for the VMR if so how many?
Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, just running our of time so rushing and my thought processes have not woken up yet, need to get off to work - what a pain!
Cheers
Jeremy
Halbe your picture shows exactly the same silencer as my car, and from what Ian says we can get these silencers from the Cooke Group. An alternative might be Gideon Booth.
If the Cooke Group do silencers would they do the pipes as well? Although from the sounds of it the M type rear pipe from Sports and Vintage would work. That just leaved the front pipe to solve.
The tail pipe on DF is bigger 1 1/4 inside and fits over the silencer and gives it a real vintage thump, which is great for such a small engine, is this an M type pipe?
Steel pipe is quite easy to buy in lengths and bends in a variety of diameters (Deamon Tweaks, Merlin Motorsport), I am not sure that copper exhausts are legal in the UK due to the resonance in the pipe. We would still need to weld on the reinforcing ring at the front if we could get the right diameter and bend, perhaps the Cooke Group is worth an ask?
I tried not to use a gas ring for a while, the movement between the engine and the chassis to which the exhaust is firmly fixed just breaks the joint all the time so had to put it back despite its rather poor state. Roger's gasket firm sounds like they can solve that for us - should we get some made up for the VMR if so how many?
Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, just running our of time so rushing and my thought processes have not woken up yet, need to get off to work - what a pain!
Cheers
Jeremy
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prharris25
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:02 pm
- Location: Liss, Hampshire.
Re: Exhaust.....
One of the great glories of the pre-war Morris is the exhaust note and it's worth taking a bit of trouble to get it right.
I got a very good and accurate reproduction silencer for my 10/4 from a guy in the MR, no longer trading...it's one of these that is also on DF 9053 (or was when I had her). The baffles were accurately reproduced from an original Morris part and the sound is just right. The Cooke silencers for the Bullnose are correct for that car, but being merely expansion chambers are very loud and sound quite wrong on say a Flatnose which had the baffled version. Ian, are you suggesting that Cookey also does the correct baffled version for the later cars?
It would be really worthwhile getting some proper ones made up as they will also fit the 10/4 and perhaps some other cars eligible for EMS. Minor front and rear pipes are easily made up. Unfortunately, whoever designed the 10/4 tailpipe was certainly having an off day as it twists all over the place and after 45 years, I'm still nor sure which way round it goes.
I got a very good and accurate reproduction silencer for my 10/4 from a guy in the MR, no longer trading...it's one of these that is also on DF 9053 (or was when I had her). The baffles were accurately reproduced from an original Morris part and the sound is just right. The Cooke silencers for the Bullnose are correct for that car, but being merely expansion chambers are very loud and sound quite wrong on say a Flatnose which had the baffled version. Ian, are you suggesting that Cookey also does the correct baffled version for the later cars?
It would be really worthwhile getting some proper ones made up as they will also fit the 10/4 and perhaps some other cars eligible for EMS. Minor front and rear pipes are easily made up. Unfortunately, whoever designed the 10/4 tailpipe was certainly having an off day as it twists all over the place and after 45 years, I'm still nor sure which way round it goes.
Re: Exhaust.....
Paul,
The silencers I have had from John Cooke are unbaffled - you can see right through them. That's what I have on the Bed-Pan right now (and it sounds like it!
)
I have had lots of Minor exhausts made in the past. SV downpipes are shorter (vertically) than OHC, and the bend on all front pipes is more than 90 degrees. The top of the downpipe has a 'top hat' section which fits in a recess in the manifold - all except the '34's which have flush manifold under surfaces. To fit, you also need the cast steel collar which holds the top hat section and the copper asbestos ring into the manifold.
Haven't had time to contact John Cooke yet, but I will do because I have to talk to him about a couple of other issues. I'll try to do this tomorrow.
The silencers I have had from John Cooke are unbaffled - you can see right through them. That's what I have on the Bed-Pan right now (and it sounds like it!
)I have had lots of Minor exhausts made in the past. SV downpipes are shorter (vertically) than OHC, and the bend on all front pipes is more than 90 degrees. The top of the downpipe has a 'top hat' section which fits in a recess in the manifold - all except the '34's which have flush manifold under surfaces. To fit, you also need the cast steel collar which holds the top hat section and the copper asbestos ring into the manifold.
Haven't had time to contact John Cooke yet, but I will do because I have to talk to him about a couple of other issues. I'll try to do this tomorrow.
Re: Exhaust.....
Blimey, what a lot of posts! I looked into an exhaust last year and Eddie at Wyvern was sourcing mild steel ones, price was somewhere around £110.00 mild steel. I would be interested in a stainless sv one, the sv appears to be a straight pipe with flange and 90 degree bend, (hardly any work to make as far as this non metal fabricator can tell!) surely these wouldn't cost a lot to make?!!! I had a number of copper ring gaskets in my autojumble stock, if they are still there (they were very popular) and are correct then they will appear on the vmr stall at Beaulieu in May! 
Re: Exhaust.....
i visited cooke gp last week [hopeing they would open museum for peatling pub meet but they cant] and while there i asked about exhausts. the reply was that they can easily make them.noting the interest on this thread i will ask for prices[sv and ohc] and batch detail. it will probably not be long before i will be in need. brian m.
Re: Exhaust.....
Thanks Brian - that would be a great help!
Re: Exhaust.....
brian m wrote:i visited cooke gp last week [hopeing they would open museum for peatling pub meet but they cant] and while there i asked about exhausts. the reply was that they can easily make them.noting the interest on this thread i will ask for prices[sv and ohc] and batch detail. it will probably not be long before i will be in need. brian m.
Excellent.... maybe it would be worth starting a list of those that would be interested depending on the price, if it were possible to have say 5 or 10 made, it might assist with the price a little... it would certainly make them more willing to assist us in our plight....!!
Re: Exhaust.....
Good idea Ronald - let's start a Roll Call on this thread. Just specify OHC or SV. Copy the list from the post before you and add your name.
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Ken Martin
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:05 am
Re: Exhaust.....
Ronald - your Dad made an authentic looking silencer for MT years ago complete with conical ends - he will expect you to follow this example!
The Cooke silencers do not have any baffles but do have conical ends. I also believe the ends are different diameters.
My car had the original silencer fitted when I started using it, but I foolishly chucked it away when it was beyond repair without noting the number and orinentation of the half moon alternately spaced baffles. I thought I had a spare original one as it looks the same as the one I discarded, but on inspection it only has baffles on one side which seems very odd indeed.
I have been running a replica made by a MR member years ago complete with alternate-side-spaced half-moon baffles.
I am certain that the origianal silencers had baffles on both sides.
If anyone has an origianl silencer like Halbe's, but useless, it would benefit us all if a dimensional diagram of the outter and inner features could be prepared. If you ever manage to separate the silencer from its pipes Halbe you could probaly get a lot of information by probing in the ends.
Ken
The Cooke silencers do not have any baffles but do have conical ends. I also believe the ends are different diameters.
My car had the original silencer fitted when I started using it, but I foolishly chucked it away when it was beyond repair without noting the number and orinentation of the half moon alternately spaced baffles. I thought I had a spare original one as it looks the same as the one I discarded, but on inspection it only has baffles on one side which seems very odd indeed.
I have been running a replica made by a MR member years ago complete with alternate-side-spaced half-moon baffles.
I am certain that the origianal silencers had baffles on both sides.
If anyone has an origianl silencer like Halbe's, but useless, it would benefit us all if a dimensional diagram of the outter and inner features could be prepared. If you ever manage to separate the silencer from its pipes Halbe you could probaly get a lot of information by probing in the ends.
Ken
Re: Exhaust.....
Good idea to find a deceased original and do an autopsy!
The Cooke Group pipes are 1 1/4" id both ends, whereas I believe the Minor original was 1 1/4" at the front and 1" at the back. (Was the M Type tailpipe also just 1" dia?)
When fitting, there should be two clamps to the chassis - one on the rear running board cross-member which is a substantial bracket spaced below the cross-member by a long bolt and spacer, and then other is a lightweight strip of twisted sheet metal supporting the aft end of the tailpipe under the rear cross-bar. These latter ones are easy to make, but the front bracket is heavy grade steel bar and not quite so easy.
Finally, there is a clamp to secure the downpipe into the front of the silencer, but this has no connection with the chassis. Since the forwardmost chassis clamp is at the rear running board cross-member, there is plenty of flex in the pipe forward of this to alleviate any strain on the cast manifold.
The Cooke Group pipes are 1 1/4" id both ends, whereas I believe the Minor original was 1 1/4" at the front and 1" at the back. (Was the M Type tailpipe also just 1" dia?)
When fitting, there should be two clamps to the chassis - one on the rear running board cross-member which is a substantial bracket spaced below the cross-member by a long bolt and spacer, and then other is a lightweight strip of twisted sheet metal supporting the aft end of the tailpipe under the rear cross-bar. These latter ones are easy to make, but the front bracket is heavy grade steel bar and not quite so easy.
Finally, there is a clamp to secure the downpipe into the front of the silencer, but this has no connection with the chassis. Since the forwardmost chassis clamp is at the rear running board cross-member, there is plenty of flex in the pipe forward of this to alleviate any strain on the cast manifold.
Re: Exhaust.....
Right, I for one would be interested in an OHC system.,....
So..
1 Ronald Hogg. OHC
Ken, fear not, if this doesn't come off, then i WILL make a silencer, and even if it does, it's still easy enough to add baffles to an unbaffled silencer, simply make cuts halfway down where you want a baffle, cut the baffle roughly to shape, drop it in your 'cut' then trim to size, and weld the 'cut' back up, complete with the baffle in it...... see, easy!!
I may end up doing it anyway, just to prove that i could make one, i think dad used to use a Mini downpipe, well, once he'd spotted all the ones i used to throw away off my mini's anyway..LOL!!!
So..
1 Ronald Hogg. OHC
Ken, fear not, if this doesn't come off, then i WILL make a silencer, and even if it does, it's still easy enough to add baffles to an unbaffled silencer, simply make cuts halfway down where you want a baffle, cut the baffle roughly to shape, drop it in your 'cut' then trim to size, and weld the 'cut' back up, complete with the baffle in it...... see, easy!!
I may end up doing it anyway, just to prove that i could make one, i think dad used to use a Mini downpipe, well, once he'd spotted all the ones i used to throw away off my mini's anyway..LOL!!!
Re: Exhaust.....
Sorry to complicate this, good news re cooke group, but, are we talking about stainless or mild steel? I would prefer stainless but with 2 minors on the road and a 3rd lined up for next project I will need an exhaust made of something at some point, so...
by Ronald on Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:48 pm
Right, I for one would be interested in an OHC system.,....
So..
1 Ronald Hogg. OHC
1 Toby Sears. SV
Ps. for anyone not sure, to copy the list- use your mouse to highlight the list, then press ctrl then c. Click on post reply and then press ctrl, then v and the text magically appears. (unless anyone knows an easier way?!!!)
by Ronald on Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:48 pm
Right, I for one would be interested in an OHC system.,....
So..
1 Ronald Hogg. OHC
1 Toby Sears. SV
Ps. for anyone not sure, to copy the list- use your mouse to highlight the list, then press ctrl then c. Click on post reply and then press ctrl, then v and the text magically appears. (unless anyone knows an easier way?!!!)
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
Re: Exhaust.....
I seem to have got a bit confused, are the Cooke group silencers baffle or packed?
Cheers
Jeremy
Cheers
Jeremy
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Mike Stubbings
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:41 pm
Re: Exhaust.....
Hi all, I have just been reading the topics on the exhaust system. A few years ago I purchased a one owner 29folding head Cowley which had spent all its life in the New Forest. It had been used for a few months after the war but had been laid up at the outbreak of war. It was owned by a motor cycle enthusiast
who only used it for holidays, camping around the south coast mainly. He worked as a young man for Wadhams of Southampton. He would never part with the car and it was sold when he died in his nineties.
I have bills for him from Wadhams for work carried out. A while after I had purchased the car his daughter rang me, she was having a kitchen extension built and they were going to pull down the old outhouse on the back of the house and found in the loft above a load of new spares the father had stored. Among them were half shafts and brake parts etc, also a new silencer. When I got them all home I checked to see if it was the same as the one on the Cowley which still had its correct Morris system and sure enough it was the same. When I acquired the Minor there was a re-produced silencer but no pipe. This also matched the other two. I tried around exhaust centres for pipe with no joy. Most of the pipe these days is to big a bore. I contacted steel suppliers in Reading called Goodmans who told me they had 31.75dia o.d. This has a 2mm wall thickness and came in a 6mtr length. It is a seamed tube and was very reasonable and fitted the silencer perfectly. It was very reasonably priced. I cut it to the required length and found someone who had an old bender who bent it to my pattern.Problem solved. Goodmans number should anyone wish to contact them is 01189 561212. Exhausting writing that! Mike.
who only used it for holidays, camping around the south coast mainly. He worked as a young man for Wadhams of Southampton. He would never part with the car and it was sold when he died in his nineties.
I have bills for him from Wadhams for work carried out. A while after I had purchased the car his daughter rang me, she was having a kitchen extension built and they were going to pull down the old outhouse on the back of the house and found in the loft above a load of new spares the father had stored. Among them were half shafts and brake parts etc, also a new silencer. When I got them all home I checked to see if it was the same as the one on the Cowley which still had its correct Morris system and sure enough it was the same. When I acquired the Minor there was a re-produced silencer but no pipe. This also matched the other two. I tried around exhaust centres for pipe with no joy. Most of the pipe these days is to big a bore. I contacted steel suppliers in Reading called Goodmans who told me they had 31.75dia o.d. This has a 2mm wall thickness and came in a 6mtr length. It is a seamed tube and was very reasonable and fitted the silencer perfectly. It was very reasonably priced. I cut it to the required length and found someone who had an old bender who bent it to my pattern.Problem solved. Goodmans number should anyone wish to contact them is 01189 561212. Exhausting writing that! Mike.