I have started a new thread on this topic and have moved the last two postings from the Our Cars thread to here. See below:
Report this postReply with quote Re: NG 850
by cammy on Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:35 am
To P or not to P? Chris you say that all OHC bodies had a number starting MP. Does this mean that our good friend Halbe is an imposter? He only has an M and no P but as we all are enviously aware VG is the epitome of originality whereas NG seems to be a right pigs ear collection of non related parts. Perhaps your crash theory is correct Chris and I am wondering if NG was owned and even built by a Norfolk scrap dealer.cammy
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Edit postDelete postReport this postReply with quote Re: NG 850
by chris lambert on Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:20 am
Clive,
A good spot!
I have just re-examined the list of body 'numbers' shown on the spreadsheet in the members area. Interestingly there is one other body listed as commencing with the single letter M. So we now have known bodies commencing with P, M, MP, SVL and no prefix at all - all Semi-Sports! (although a few other bodies are shown minus a prefix - an ommission or a totally different sequence?) A further discovery from this examination revealed that not a single Tourer has a body number recorded against it!
Upon closer examination the highest OHC body number I could find was 11111, which could correalate to the numbers of OHC Coachbuilt Saloons built over the period in question.
Is there a different sequence for Fabric Saloons, perhaps just an M?
A lot more unaswered questions - anybody got some answers?
Chris
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Minor Body Identification Markings
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Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
I should also add that Aussie bodies, unsurprisingly, carry totally different body identification sequences.
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
hello Chris,
I think there is a possibility that the prefix might indicate a different bodytype.
Although the body’s look the same , the way they are clad dictates the way they are build.
I can imagine that the coachbuilt saloon has a different frame than the fabric saloon.
On my car the body has been built in at least five big parts.
The front, two sides the roof and rear panel
These parts were than covered in fabric and assembled into one complete body.
This method doesn’t make sense for the coachbuilt saloon’s where you build a frame and than cover it in metal.
Do the coachbuilt body’s have a single vertical beam on either side of the rear window or double beams like on my car? ( see picture’s in our car’s page 5)
Maybe it’s possible for more people to sent there car’s body number to Ian so that he can put them into the master chassis register.
Let’s see if there is a patern
regards Halbe
I think there is a possibility that the prefix might indicate a different bodytype.
Although the body’s look the same , the way they are clad dictates the way they are build.
I can imagine that the coachbuilt saloon has a different frame than the fabric saloon.
On my car the body has been built in at least five big parts.
The front, two sides the roof and rear panel
These parts were than covered in fabric and assembled into one complete body.
This method doesn’t make sense for the coachbuilt saloon’s where you build a frame and than cover it in metal.
Do the coachbuilt body’s have a single vertical beam on either side of the rear window or double beams like on my car? ( see picture’s in our car’s page 5)
Maybe it’s possible for more people to sent there car’s body number to Ian so that he can put them into the master chassis register.
Let’s see if there is a patern
regards Halbe
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Halbe,
Does this picture of the wreckage of NG answer your question?
Does this picture of the wreckage of NG answer your question?
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Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Halbe, Another thing I have noticed is that the main body runner (the bit of the woodwork that sits on the chassis on each side) appears to be double the thickness on VG that it is on NG. You can see this if you compare the photos of the rotten piece off NG and the phot of VG
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Chris & Ian
The body number on my coachbuilt saloon VK3672 (December 1930) is MP 7001
The body number on my coachbuilt saloon VK3672 (December 1930) is MP 7001
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
I have a 1934 long chassis WV 6073.
Most of the body is missing but the floor pans still there.
It has a stamped plate with M.P. 523
Most of the body is missing but the floor pans still there.
It has a stamped plate with M.P. 523
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
God Lord! I'm five hours behind you guys, get up, and find all this was goping on while I was sleeping!
Great topic, and I can add a couple of points. First, the saloons and Semi-sports were built at Cowley and have body numbers. The tourers and vans were built in Coventry and came down to Cowley in lorries - and have no body numbers. So body numbers was a Cowley thing.
It may be that the P indicated metal Paneled, and that M bodies are the fabric ones. The frames were definitely different, at lease because the fabric saloon had no folding head. L could have been LWB - until James came along!
I did some research a while back - not sure if I put it in the Magazine. I compared body numbers of saloons with the saloons in the Genome and found that the increase in body numbers matched the production of saloons quite well. Well enough for me to guestimate the number of SV saloon bodies there must have been in the 1931 parallel production period. Any discrepancy could be because of the odd fabric saloon - or did they have their own sequence? I'll add the body numbers for Halbe and James into the master Chassis Register when I get a moment. Any more numbers would be very useful.
Great topic, and I can add a couple of points. First, the saloons and Semi-sports were built at Cowley and have body numbers. The tourers and vans were built in Coventry and came down to Cowley in lorries - and have no body numbers. So body numbers was a Cowley thing.
It may be that the P indicated metal Paneled, and that M bodies are the fabric ones. The frames were definitely different, at lease because the fabric saloon had no folding head. L could have been LWB - until James came along!
I did some research a while back - not sure if I put it in the Magazine. I compared body numbers of saloons with the saloons in the Genome and found that the increase in body numbers matched the production of saloons quite well. Well enough for me to guestimate the number of SV saloon bodies there must have been in the 1931 parallel production period. Any discrepancy could be because of the odd fabric saloon - or did they have their own sequence? I'll add the body numbers for Halbe and James into the master Chassis Register when I get a moment. Any more numbers would be very useful.
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Ian, Don't forget to add NG's if you have not done so. Cheers
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
I have a picture somewhere of the coachbuilt wooden frame, I'll dig it out, I printed this off a web site so it must be online somewhere!
It is interesting the way the fabric body was built in sections and bolted(?) together. The roof is very similar to the coach built despite not having the folding head, its as if they just left the thin stretchers out on the front section of the roof to allow the folding section. There are pictures of the roof of DF in our cars when I had the covering off for comparison.
DF's body it not it's original, but a replacement from a slightly earlier car. I belive this car was sold by Stewart and Ardern which may explain why it managed to eascape into public ownership. There are subtle differences between DF and NG and VG but without taking the interior trim off I can't say which it is most similar to.
Cheers
Jeremy
It is interesting the way the fabric body was built in sections and bolted(?) together. The roof is very similar to the coach built despite not having the folding head, its as if they just left the thin stretchers out on the front section of the roof to allow the folding section. There are pictures of the roof of DF in our cars when I had the covering off for comparison.
DF's body it not it's original, but a replacement from a slightly earlier car. I belive this car was sold by Stewart and Ardern which may explain why it managed to eascape into public ownership. There are subtle differences between DF and NG and VG but without taking the interior trim off I can't say which it is most similar to.
Cheers
Jeremy
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Jeremy it would be great to see that picture and we could then begin to categorise the differences as we discover them to gain some sort of classification in line with the body numbers. Clive
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Good morning gentlemen
here is a picture of VG's roof.
The sides are bolted together and the roof is screwed onto the sides from below except for the front rails witch is fixed from the top and the back which is also bolted. You can see the bolts and the fabric between the beams on the VG thread page 5.
Clive,I think the main body runners are the same thickness. When I take the body off I'll take some more pictures off the construction.
I would also like to see that picture Jeremy
Halbe
here is a picture of VG's roof.
The sides are bolted together and the roof is screwed onto the sides from below except for the front rails witch is fixed from the top and the back which is also bolted. You can see the bolts and the fabric between the beams on the VG thread page 5.
Clive,I think the main body runners are the same thickness. When I take the body off I'll take some more pictures off the construction.
I would also like to see that picture Jeremy
Halbe
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Although it was long, long ago, I seemed to remember a No. stamped into the frame of PJ, my 32 tourer. I've had a quick look while in the garage doing othr things but can't see a number as I remember it-this appears to be in line with the no number on tourers, however, on the side rail by the door it has 28915 stamped into the wood. The steel plate covers a prefix, if there is one! Will look harder as I'm sure i remember a number (will check other tourer too, in case thats where i saw it) 
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
Re: Minor Body Identification Markings
Toby,
Exactly. I had a 1932 2-seater and I seem to recall a number stamped along the left side sill. Your mail confirms this.
Thinking about it, there is a certain logic here. if the OHC 2-seaters were numbered and made at Cowley, the SV 2-seaters were probably also made at Cowley. I don't think my number had any prefix letters - and nor do the Semi-sports. Incidentally, the Semi-sports also had number stamped on the insides of the windscreen pillars and on the inside of the wooden instrument board assemblies which were close, but not exactly the same as the numbers on the bodies.
Exactly. I had a 1932 2-seater and I seem to recall a number stamped along the left side sill. Your mail confirms this.
Thinking about it, there is a certain logic here. if the OHC 2-seaters were numbered and made at Cowley, the SV 2-seaters were probably also made at Cowley. I don't think my number had any prefix letters - and nor do the Semi-sports. Incidentally, the Semi-sports also had number stamped on the insides of the windscreen pillars and on the inside of the wooden instrument board assemblies which were close, but not exactly the same as the numbers on the bodies.