MG M type footbrake bracket

[ian judd]

I am looking into the possibility of producing a batch of M footpedal brackets. I have put a feeler out on the MMM website also. There probably are not all that many M owners who need one, but this is one item that Minors would really benefit from. For Minor owners not familiar with this, it is an alloy bracket which bolts into the side channel and gives a really solid mounting for the pedal,with a definite improvement in braking. The clutch and brake pedals won't be quite as close as before, but still only something like 3/16". Suitable for both cable and hydraulic systems and easy to fit.
The reason I am having to make one for myself is that I put my spare M one on a Minor. This is one of those situations where the more that are made the cheaper they become. Perhaps if anyone is interested they could let me know and I can work out a rough price. I'm not expecting them to be expensive, but they will be made from high quality heat-treated alloy.

Ian

[Ian Grace]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the invitation. I hadn't thought of putting one of these on a Minor before, but it would eb a very good idea. I have a rotten one of these castings - it seems to have been cast around the steel brtake pedal fulcrum pin. I think I looked into having some of these cast many years ago, and was told that casting ali around steel like this is a bit of a specialist job. I think the fulcrum pin is also pinne din with a taper pin or soem such< so you may be able to machine the casting and fit the fulcrum pin afterwards. Any thoughts?

Ian

[Ian Grace]

Ian,

I just put a piece out on the VMR website regarding these brackets. I'll let you know if I get a response.

Thanks again for including us in your plans,

Ian

[ian judd]

Hi Ian
I know what you mean about it being cast around the shaft. I used to think that too, ( and that might be the case ), but then why bother with pinning it? If it was cast around the shaft I think the chances of the alloy cracking as it cooled would be high. Its possible it was a press fit, but my pet theory is that the bracket was heated up and shrunk on to the shaft in the same way as the alloy fins on the brake drums,( and the pin fitted " just in case".) That said, all ideas welcome!

Cheers
Ian

[DF9053]

Any pictures of what this bit looks like?

Is it possible to get the M type brake drum fins?

Cheers
Jeremy

[Tony Gamble]

Hi

Are you talking about the item marked "3" on the sheet below ?

Tony Gamble

[ian judd]

Hi Tony,
The chassis shown is I think a P Type, and no it's nothing like that bracket. Its an alloy casting with webbs and is shaped to fit where the chassis rail curves up under the rear engine mounting. I don't have a photo, as I never thought to take one and the pattern is now at the foundry - I'm having a one-off made to experiment with. Ian Grace says he has a rough one, any chance of a photo Ian, so everyone can see what they look like? If not I will crawl under my car and see if I can take a picture in situ.
Cheers
Ian

[Ian Grace]

Mine is in storage in Colnbrook right now, but I think Chris Lambert might be able to get sight of it next week when he will be shifting much of the stuff in storage. Watch this space!

[David Whittle]

I am looking into the possibility of producing a batch of M footpedal brackets. I have put a feeler out on the MMM website also. There probably are not all that many M owners who need one, but this is one item that Minors would really benefit from. For Minor owners not familiar with this, it is an alloy bracket which bolts into the side channel and gives a really solid mounting for the pedal,with a definite improvement in braking. The clutch and brake pedals won't be quite as close as before, but still only something like 3/16". Suitable for both cable and hydraulic systems and easy to fit.
The reason I am having to make one for myself is that I put my spare M one on a Minor. This is one of those situations where the more that are made the cheaper they become. Perhaps if anyone is interested they could let me know and I can work out a rough price. I'm not expecting them to be expensive, but they will be made from high quality heat-treated alloy.

Ian

I can't see how this could be an improvement on the steel shaft that mounts the brake and clutch pedals presently on cars with cable brakes!

[Ian Grace]

Dave, it is because the gearbox is bolted to the engine, and the engine is on rubber mounts and therefore mechanically disconnected from the chassis, and in particular, the brake cross-shaft. By mounting the pedal on the chassis instead of the gearbox, there is much more rigidity in the system. That was the reason for Kimber's mod.

On a similar topic, many people wonder why Kimber did away with the nifty Minor brake cross-shaft with its bronze bearings and went for a seemingly crude cross shaft running in bent plate steel mounts. The reasoning behind this is that the M arrangement better copes with chassis flexing. On the Minor, when new, the bushes were a close fit, and a twist in the chassis caused by uneven road conditions could cause the shaft to momentarily sieze in the bearings. Of course, we don't have this problem with our Minors today because all our bronze bushes are well worn by now!

[halbe]

Hello Ian,

As I am a novice , do you think it's a sensible modification?

On the aston the clutch and accelerator are on a shaft bolted onto the gearbox, and the brake pedal is on a other shaft bolted directly on the chassis.

please advise

Halbe

[Ian Grace]

Halbe,

I guess it comes down to the old debate about originality versus driveability. We could all make our Minors more driveable by fitting hydraulic brakes, for example. My view, for what it is worth, is that the original Minor set-up was perfectly adequate, and probably not worth making this mod. unless your main challenge in life is to beat Clive Hamilton-Gould in driving tests! In your case, with such an original 'timepiece' car, I'd have to advise against the mod.

[halbe]

OK,

I'll keep the original set-up

Thanks

Halbe

[David Whittle]

Dave, it is because the gearbox is bolted to the engine, and the engine is on rubber mounts and therefore mechanically disconnected from the chassis, and in particular, the brake cross-shaft. By mounting the pedal on the chassis instead of the gearbox, there is much more rigidity in the system. That was the reason for Kimber's mod.

On a similar topic, many people wonder why Kimber did away with the nifty Minor brake cross-shaft with its bronze bearings and went for a seemingly crude cross shaft running in bent plate steel mounts. The reasoning behind this is that the M arrangement better copes with chassis flexing. On the Minor, when new, the bushes were a close fit, and a twist in the chassis caused by uneven road conditions could cause the shaft to momentarily sieze in the bearings. Of course, we don't have this problem with our Minors today because all our bronze bushes are well worn by now!

Ah I see what your getting at - but I would guess the deflection on the rubber mounts is so small as to be virtualy undetectable, or perhaps my rubber mounts are not typical, being almost solid!

No to me, to improve braking performance, a better bet would be thicker guage cables (I believe the cables are not man enough and stretch to much within the elastic limit when used in anger) and stonger drums (mine have been skimmed to many times and I think they bell when hot and used hard). I think M type drums might be a much better bet than the bracket mentioned!

[Ian Grace]

We could start a whole new thread on Minor brakes. The '29's had thin pressed steel drums and should be replaced with later ones, because they flex (and ring like hell) when under load. You can skim the flange off SV drums to make good OHC drums - to fit inside the early small backplates. Fatter brake cables is a good idea, except for the front, where you will either have Bowdens of pulley brakes, and pulleys need thin, wire rope cables for flexibility. Contrary to popular opinion, the early 180 degree pulley system does work well, and Paul Rogers and Clive Hamilton-Gould both have this set-up (as does my Semi-sports), and the front wheels can be locked up quite easily on hard braking.

But we digress. Ian Judd has made a good offer for a practical mod. to us, (and for those of us with M Types) so please support his efforts if you think appropriate for your car. batching of spares is an extremely important way of helping each other.