A Minor registered before construction?

[Ian Grace]

The Minor discovery NG 50 depicted on the website today was first registered 30th December 1930, but it wasn't despatched from Cowley until 8th January 1931.

The chassis number and engine numbers all match the production records (M31741, engine 32590), so there is no doubt that the car was built in January 1931.

So suspicion turned to the registration date on the (1945) continuation logbook. The registration number NG 50 is a Norfolk number. The first car registered in Norfolk in 1931 was NG 156, so NG 50 was definitely registered before the end of 1930, so the 30th December registration date is certainly correct.

So we have a car here that was registered in Norfolk 11 days before being despatched from Cowley and the chassis wasn't even laid down until 5th January!

I am wondering if there was some advantage in registering a car before the end of the year - perhaps for tax reasons? But more significantly, it would seem that the Norfolk registration authority had the chassis AND engine number of the car before it was built!

Perhaps Morris provided this data when a car was ordered from the factory in advance, but this could not be, as engines were selected at random from the pile for fitting only when the chassis was on its way down the line.

Can anyone throw any light on this apparent conundrum?

[Ian Grace]

Here is the documentation.

Interestingly, the Heritage Certificate provided other information that the car was registered in Norfolk in 1931. That is not the case - at least according to Glass's Guide, and the author, Anders Clausager, must have known better but obviously couldn't put December 1930 on the certificate!

It might also be worth trying to obtain the original registration records from Norwich, but I doubt they would contradict the 30th December date on the logbook and Glass's Guide.

My best bet is that the registration number was allocated to the first owner on 30th December when he ordered the car, but the logbook wasn't issued until January, after the car had been despatched.

[SV_Minor]

I do enjoy these conundrums. I have family links with Norfolk, my maternal grandmother was born about 10 miles south of Cromer, so I have made a number of visits to the Records Office in the past. I will be making further visits in the future (genealogy is a never-ending process), but not until we're allowed to. I'd be happy to take a look at any available records they have if no one else comes forward in the meantime.

[Ian Grace]

That would be great.

The address where the records are kept is:

Norfolk Record Office,
Guidengate House,
Anglia Square,
Upper Green Lane,
Norwich NR3 1AX
Tel. 01603/761349

[SV_Minor]

Can't say I've been to that address Ian, I've always headed for this one to do family history research...

Norfolk Record Office, The Archive Centre, Martineau Lane, Norwich, NR1 2DQ

I've just had a quick look on the Kithead Trust website and they seem to confirm NR1 2DQ. Shame they don't have the records at Droitwich. It's only 10 mins up the road from me.

[Ian Grace]

Looks like they have moved - a Google search for the NRO at the Guidengate House address draws a blank.

I extracted the address from 'How to Trace the History of Your Car', written by Philip Riden, published in 1991 and with my second edition dated 1998. So I will correct the entry.

Google throws up Martineau Lane as the current address, and a new telephone number 1603/222599, e-mail norfrec@norfolk.gov.uk.

I just e-mailed them to request the registration record for NG 50.

Incidentally, according to the DVLA, the number hasn't been re-allocated yet, so the lucky new owner might be able to buy it back, for something in excess of the GBP 20,000 that the current owner got for it!

[SV_Minor]

The JO (Oxford) registration number originally affixed to my Minor was on a modern car but hasn't been showing up on the DVLA search function for the past year. Wish I could have it back on the Morris.

[Ian Grace]

Indeed Johnathan. Originally JO 5914.

And I noticed that your chassis number is SV15978. Although not registered until 1/12/32, it left Cowley 14/4/32 which makes it a 1932 season car. Do you have any plans to fit the 1932 season radiator? (And have you managed to sort the oil pressure?)

Here is Johnathan's Minorcaptured at Claines Church, Worcester last Christmas Eve:

[SV_Minor]

Having read a period piece by Morris Motors, and an article in a motor magazine from the early 1930s, they both said that an oil pressure of 60-100psi was quite normal (mine sits at around 80 on the move and 50psi at idle) so I've decided not to worry about it. I've managed 300-miles in it so far. As regards the radiator grill, I know it's not original but I'm quite happy with the look, and 99.999% of the British public are none-the-wiser that it's wearing the wrong nose (I certainly was when I bought it)

The timescale between despatch and registration has been puzzling me for the past 4 years. I'm just wondering if it was a dealer (actually Morris Garages in Oxford) customer test-drive car on trade plates and was sold later in the year at a discount to the first private owner.

[Ian Grace]

That oil pressure sounds absolutely fine now.

I just took a look in the chassis register for cars around your chassis number, and all seem to have been registered within a month of despatch from Cowley. So I agree that the delay in registering yours was unduly lengthy for the time.

[Ian Grace]

I sent in an enquiry to the Norfolk Record office re NG 50, but got this automated reply:

"Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding the above subject.

Unfortunately, due to current lockdown restrictions, our offices are again closed, and searchroom staff are once more working from home. Consequently, we are unable to offer our usual research facility.

We are also currently unsure as to when exactly we will re-open, although we hope it will be roughly in line with the government’s timetable."

[PhilDevon]

Just to muddy the waters, I would like to throw this in!

Back in the 1930s (and probably up until the 1980s when the whole system was computerised and centralised at DVLC/DVLA), Registration Offices were basically taxation offices that worked with registers and card indexes. Of the surviving records I have seen, each register was different, probably supplied by a local printer.

So in this case, the NG series of 1 to 9999 was probably in one book. I have seen several cases where blocks of numbers were allocated to certain car dealers in advance. So NG 25 to 50 for instance may have been allocated to one dealer. This would have been pencilled into the register and as their cars were registered, the details such as MG and first owner would have been added in pen.

This would account for why NG 50 was registered the last day of December (a Wednesday) and yet the first car registered in 1931 was NG 156. When NG 25 to 50 was allocated, that may have been the middle of December and in the meantime various other cars were registered. NG 51 may well have been registered the day the batch was allocated. You cannot guarantee numbers were issued consecutively.

Depending on where the dealer was in relation to the Registration Office, the applications may have been submitted by post. I have never seen an application form, but I bet there was a date of it and that date is probably what went in the register.

It was winter, just after Xmas and New Years eve. In those days I bet workers only had Christmas Day off so no extended holiday period.

I wondered if it may have been snowing, but the Met Office have weather condition for 1930 online (!!!) and it seems it was light rain with fog and frost at night.!!

With the new owner chomping at the bit and the dealership wanting everything to go smoothly, a phone call to the factory would have provided the necessary information to effectively register the car in advance. Number plates on and tax disc in the window the minute it arrived.

Was production and delivery delayed because of Christmas ? Were cars built but awaiting parts? We work to "just in time" now, but in 1930?

[Ian Grace]

Fascinating stuff, Phil. Thanks for posting - and welcome to the Forum!

Ian