Looing though the technical details of the OHC Minor on the websites I seem to remember find that the radiator has a capicty of 11 pints, the block 6 pints and the "overall system" 21 pints.
I have drained the system from the radiator drain tap in preparation for adding antifreeze and I collected the water into 5ltr containers. I have about 6 or 7 lires which seems to relate to just the 11 pints from the radiator. How does one drain the rest of the system,or have I got the stats wrong?
Help please.
Martin
OHV Minor Water Capacity
Moderators: Ian Grace, Will Grace
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
This topic is running on and on in the PWMN forum. It seems that everyone believes the capacity of the whole system to be 10.75 pints.
Ian, have you any idea where the data in the Engine Technical Details page came from and how reliable it might be?
Martin
Ian, have you any idea where the data in the Engine Technical Details page came from and how reliable it might be?
Martin
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Martin,
Apologies for being non-responsive forum-wise over the weekend (although others can reply as well!) - I drove to Driggs' Idaho and back over the weekend to deliver an aircraft trailer - 1,800 mile round trip! I'll look into this later today.
Cheers,
Ian
Apologies for being non-responsive forum-wise over the weekend (although others can reply as well!) - I drove to Driggs' Idaho and back over the weekend to deliver an aircraft trailer - 1,800 mile round trip! I'll look into this later today.
Cheers,
Ian
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Many thanks Ian, sounds as though you had a very 'modern' day, the kind of distance we would never dream of here. How could we drive from Land's End to John 'o Groats and back plus some in a day?
Look forward to your reply .
Martin
Look forward to your reply .
Martin
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
So I drove from home to our daughter and her family who live in Spirit Lake, Idaho Friday night - 350 miles. The distance from there to Driggs is 544 miles, and I contemplated getting to Driggs Saturday and getting back to Spirit Lake Saturday night, which would have been 1,088 miles for the day. I set off from Spirit Lake at 0630, but this was too much to do the round trip in one go, so I pulled in to Missoula, Montana about 0130 Sunday morning and crashed out in a motel, having done about 900 miles for the day. Just short of 1,000 miles in 24 hours (I did 1,200 miles in 24 hours a few years ago - to buy 1929 tourer OF 4554, driving from Grand Rapids, Michigan to Kansas City and back in a day.)
That number 1,088 miles for the Spirit Lake/Driggs return trip is a significant one as that is the exact distance a 1929 Minor tourer did in 24 hours in the 1930 Belgian Grand Prix at Spa. This weekend's drive gave me a whole new admiration for that achievement and a deep appreciation for the true capabilities of our cars.
That number 1,088 miles for the Spirit Lake/Driggs return trip is a significant one as that is the exact distance a 1929 Minor tourer did in 24 hours in the 1930 Belgian Grand Prix at Spa. This weekend's drive gave me a whole new admiration for that achievement and a deep appreciation for the true capabilities of our cars.
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Martin,
The figures in the tech section of the website are:
Radiator: 10 3/4 pints
Block: 7 1/4 pints
Total system capacity: 2 gallons 5 pints.
I believe these figures came from the 1929 Salesman's Manual. However, the 1930 Salesman's Manual quotes:
Radiator: 9 3/4 pints
Block: 7 1/4 pints
Total system capacity: 2 gallons 4 pints
The difference in these sets of figures is a one pint increase in the radiator capacity and may be accounted for by the change from the early (1928/9) nickel radiator to the later (1930/31) chromed radiator with separate shell. Or perhaps the overflow pipe length was raised at some point, thereby increasing the capacity of the header tank.
Looking at 1932 Salesman's Reference, this quotes a total water capacity of 10 3/4 pints for the SWB SV car and 14 1/4 pints for the Family 8, which was OHC.
Although it quotes these figures as "total capacity", these figures are clearly just the radiator capacity.
Note that the Family 8 is quoted as having 14 1/4 pints, which would imply a significantly larger radiator capacity than the earlier cars. The 1932 season OHC Minor actually introduced the long, 1933 season pattern radiator, so I think that it safe to assume that the radiator capacity for the 1933 and 1934 season SV cars would also have been 14 1/4 pints.
But that's not quite the end of the story, since the 1932 and 1933 season radiators shared the same core and tanks (although be warned, the shells are not completely interchangeable, since the shell attachment holes and therefore the radiator tape holes are differently positioned!) so presumably all of the 1932 season cars shared the same increased capacity of 14 1/4 pints over their flatnose Minor predecessors, which, in turn, would imply an error in the 1932 Salesman's Reference with respect to the capacity of the SWB SV Minor.
Of course, you could always call Customer Relations at Cowley and ask them!
The figures in the tech section of the website are:
Radiator: 10 3/4 pints
Block: 7 1/4 pints
Total system capacity: 2 gallons 5 pints.
I believe these figures came from the 1929 Salesman's Manual. However, the 1930 Salesman's Manual quotes:
Radiator: 9 3/4 pints
Block: 7 1/4 pints
Total system capacity: 2 gallons 4 pints
The difference in these sets of figures is a one pint increase in the radiator capacity and may be accounted for by the change from the early (1928/9) nickel radiator to the later (1930/31) chromed radiator with separate shell. Or perhaps the overflow pipe length was raised at some point, thereby increasing the capacity of the header tank.
Looking at 1932 Salesman's Reference, this quotes a total water capacity of 10 3/4 pints for the SWB SV car and 14 1/4 pints for the Family 8, which was OHC.
Although it quotes these figures as "total capacity", these figures are clearly just the radiator capacity.
Note that the Family 8 is quoted as having 14 1/4 pints, which would imply a significantly larger radiator capacity than the earlier cars. The 1932 season OHC Minor actually introduced the long, 1933 season pattern radiator, so I think that it safe to assume that the radiator capacity for the 1933 and 1934 season SV cars would also have been 14 1/4 pints.
But that's not quite the end of the story, since the 1932 and 1933 season radiators shared the same core and tanks (although be warned, the shells are not completely interchangeable, since the shell attachment holes and therefore the radiator tape holes are differently positioned!) so presumably all of the 1932 season cars shared the same increased capacity of 14 1/4 pints over their flatnose Minor predecessors, which, in turn, would imply an error in the 1932 Salesman's Reference with respect to the capacity of the SWB SV Minor.
Of course, you could always call Customer Relations at Cowley and ask them!
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Hi Ian, many thanks for the work you have done, but I am not really any the wiser. The technical section total capacity of 2gal 5pts was my starting point. If this is indeed the full capacity then, as I asked before, how is this drained off? The radiator drain tap only empties 10.75 pints which I have collected and measured, so there must be another 10 pints or so elsewhere, but I can find no other drain point. Indeed the 1930 user manual says "Water upon freezing expands, with the result that there is a very considerable risk of bursting either the radiator or the cylinder block by the pressure generated. As a precautionary measure, when frost is anticipated, the water should be drawn from the radiator before the car is stored for the night". There is no mention of draining water from anywhere except the radiator to empty the block to prevent it freezing.
I would have thought that all the water in a simple thermosyphon system should drain completely from the radiator tap, as the flow of all the water should rise out of the block / head to the top of the radiator and then fall as it cools to the bottom to return to the block through the bottom hose. The more I think about it, it seems to me that if there is a quantity of water that does not drain from the radiator then it would not circulate during running.
All of the Minor community (see this same thread on PWMN) seems to believe that the total system is 10.75 pints and I am also persuaded to believe this. As another example: if I collect 10.75 pints then this must also include at least the top and bottom hoses which are quite large - unless these are included as part of the 'radiator'. Maybe the 1932 Salesman's Reference, that quotes "a total water capacity of 10 3/4 pints for the SWB SV car", is actually what it means and this is the total capacity. Why should this salesman's reference be given less credence than those of 1929 and 1930?
For the moment I have refilled with 10.75 pints of antifreeze solution, which fills the system up to the proper level at the radiator filler cap, and I will follow two paths to try to work this out.
1. I have booked some time in the Gaydon reading room next Monday to try a bit of research - maybe I can find some engineering data - never trust a salesman to explain technicalities! Any suggestions to help me focus my time there would be welcomed.
2. I will also try removing the bottom radiator hose, seal off the bottom radiator outlet and fill just the radiator to see exactly what that capacity is.
All this will need to wait until I return from the NEC next week. I am off tomorrow on the start of that adventure. First is a drive to an MR member near to Gaydon with Jean riding 'shotgun' in the Hyundai and then on Thursday the car will be trailered the last few miles up the motorway to Birmingham.
One thing I am sure of is that I have replaced all the fluid that I drained off so I won't run out of water on the way - now how's about that for tempting fate!!!
Sorry that this is so long, but I really would like to bottom this out.
Martin
I would have thought that all the water in a simple thermosyphon system should drain completely from the radiator tap, as the flow of all the water should rise out of the block / head to the top of the radiator and then fall as it cools to the bottom to return to the block through the bottom hose. The more I think about it, it seems to me that if there is a quantity of water that does not drain from the radiator then it would not circulate during running.
All of the Minor community (see this same thread on PWMN) seems to believe that the total system is 10.75 pints and I am also persuaded to believe this. As another example: if I collect 10.75 pints then this must also include at least the top and bottom hoses which are quite large - unless these are included as part of the 'radiator'. Maybe the 1932 Salesman's Reference, that quotes "a total water capacity of 10 3/4 pints for the SWB SV car", is actually what it means and this is the total capacity. Why should this salesman's reference be given less credence than those of 1929 and 1930?
For the moment I have refilled with 10.75 pints of antifreeze solution, which fills the system up to the proper level at the radiator filler cap, and I will follow two paths to try to work this out.
1. I have booked some time in the Gaydon reading room next Monday to try a bit of research - maybe I can find some engineering data - never trust a salesman to explain technicalities! Any suggestions to help me focus my time there would be welcomed.
2. I will also try removing the bottom radiator hose, seal off the bottom radiator outlet and fill just the radiator to see exactly what that capacity is.
All this will need to wait until I return from the NEC next week. I am off tomorrow on the start of that adventure. First is a drive to an MR member near to Gaydon with Jean riding 'shotgun' in the Hyundai and then on Thursday the car will be trailered the last few miles up the motorway to Birmingham.
One thing I am sure of is that I have replaced all the fluid that I drained off so I won't run out of water on the way - now how's about that for tempting fate!!!
Sorry that this is so long, but I really would like to bottom this out.
Martin
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Martin, thanks for that.
Well, whatever the total capacity, the design of the block and head is such that most, if not all of the water they contain drains out when the radiator tap is opened. You will see this as and when you remove the water jacket side plates from the block.
And when you do remove those plates, you may well find an enormous amount of rusty sediment in there which cannot be removed by simply back-flushing the radiator from the bottom.
In any case, it wouldn't make much sensse if Morris didn't put the drain tap close to the lowest point in the system and/or design the cooling system such that a significant volume in the block could not be so drained.
Ian
Well, whatever the total capacity, the design of the block and head is such that most, if not all of the water they contain drains out when the radiator tap is opened. You will see this as and when you remove the water jacket side plates from the block.
And when you do remove those plates, you may well find an enormous amount of rusty sediment in there which cannot be removed by simply back-flushing the radiator from the bottom.
In any case, it wouldn't make much sensse if Morris didn't put the drain tap close to the lowest point in the system and/or design the cooling system such that a significant volume in the block could not be so drained.
Ian
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Thinks - if you are only getting the quoted radiator capacity out when you drain the system, maybe your bottom hose is blocked? It might be worth removing the bottom hose and stuffing a hosepipe up it and see what comes out!
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Interesting idea, but I would have thought that if this were the problem then I would have suffered extreme overheating which is not the situation.
This would also mean that all the MR members who drain and refill with 10.75 pints must also have blocked bottom hoses!
Anyway, as I said, I will not do any more investigation until next week.
Martin
This would also mean that all the MR members who drain and refill with 10.75 pints must also have blocked bottom hoses!
Anyway, as I said, I will not do any more investigation until next week.
Martin
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
I think some serious testing is called for...
My Semi-sports after the firing-up party!
My Semi-sports after the firing-up party!
Re: OHV Minor Water Capacity
Is that an interesting way to flush out the cooling system!
Test awaited, but the cooling system in UF7090 was beautifully behaved during the 70 miles of running to and from NEC.
Cold clear days and with the fan now fully operational the calormeter was at 1 o'clock.
Test awaited, but the cooling system in UF7090 was beautifully behaved during the 70 miles of running to and from NEC.
Cold clear days and with the fan now fully operational the calormeter was at 1 o'clock.