Worn road spring eye - solutions?

[Ian Grace]

So I have a good front road spring, all except the rear spring eye which is badly worn by the shackle pin. It looks like the wear is about half way through the main leaf. Can anyone tell me if these can be welded and bored? Or is there another fix? Drilling out and bushing doesn't seem practical, as I'd be removing even more metal!

I suppose I could find a (longer) leaf from a rear spring and have a blacksmith turn a couple of eyes on it.

Failing that, does anyone have a good front spring spare? Or at least a sound main leaf? Or a spare rear spring leaf?

[gubben]

Ian,
It's possible but I strongly recommend that you talk to a professional workshop with experience of that kind of work. I know there is special welding electrode for leaf steel, for example ESAB OK 68.81.
/Thomas

[Ian Grace]

Thanks Thomas,

That's good advice. I have used heavy truck workshops in the past for spring and heavy chassis work. They are well set up for that sort of thing.

[gubben]

I have just detected the same problem. Does anyone know the tolerance and gap pin/eye?

[Ian Grace]

Thomas, I don't think there is a published tolerance specific to the Minor. More important to me is that the wear in my spring eye is so much that it has worn about half way through the leaf, so would be in danger of complete collapse over a big bump!

The wear in the spring hangers on the chassis is a different matter. I have seen these wear really badly - specially the front ones (at the rear/shackle end of the front springs). I have had cars in the past where someone has wrapped ten or twelve loops of wire through the eye to remove play! The front spring hangers are easy to de-rivet, then drill/bush (if there is enoguh original metal left) and then bolt on to the chassis (but being careful to ensure that the shackle retains full movement, as the new bolt head will be bigger than the original rivet head and ends up fouling the shackle when it leans back - I have cut a small half-moon cut-out in the shackle bridge section to overcome this issue in the past).

The rear spring hangers (at the rear end of the rear springs) are more tricky to machine as the rear springs are parallel to the road, and not to the chassis rails like the front springs, so they have to be set up carfully before drilling/bushing. I have also heard of people building up the spring hangers with weld when not enough metal is left to drill and bush, but I have never had to resort to this.

[gubben]

Ian, thank you for clarifying the subject. I asked because I detected a noticeable gap in the front eye when dismantling the front springs (I had not dismantled the rear springs yet) and I would like to instruct the workshop the measurement requirements. I measured in the most worn part of the eye a gap, pin/eye, to 0,6 mm (0,4 inches). Not alarming I believe but too much. I think 0,1 to max 0,2 mm (0,004 to 0,008 inches) would be OK or do you have another opinion?

I could not feel a gap at the rear end (shackle end) but after your feedback I, fore sure, will examine these hangers and shackles more carefully tomorrow.
Thomas

PS
Well, I have now examined the hanger bracket and it has already a bushing. And it is worn but not in the middle but at the ends - as if the spring has wiggled which seems likely. So, drilling and a new bushing is necessary here as well.

[gubben]

Looking for suitable bushings for the spring eye and hangers. Ought to be close to 1/2" inner and 11/16" outer diameter I think. Have looked around the "net" without success. Where to buy - please, anyone?
/Thomas

[plj]

I think for steel bushes you would have to have them made, bronze bushes from stock can be had from www.atlasbronze.com

Philip

[gubben]

Thank you, Philip. Perfect link.

[Ian Grace]

I'm bringing the topic of front springs over here from John Pallister's 'Our Cars' thread, so he has a chance to sell his spares!

First, the front road spring part no. is 3623 - as quoted in Service Information sheet G/19. The service sheet quotes that the spring should be flat with a load of 280 pounds. It quotes the unloaded curvature to be 2 1/2" and the spring rate to be 112 lbs. per inch (but remember, this is for the M, which had flatter springs than the Minor - or at least that is the accepted wisdom...). But it also quotes that the spring should have 4 leaves plus 2 rebound - i.e. 6 in total, but all my springs have 7 leaves. Looking in Blower, at the M Type springs, he also quotes 4 leaves plus 2 rebounds and the dimensioned drawing shows the 6 leaves and their lengths. The OHC Salesman's handbook (printed March 1930) also quotes six leaves.

But the Morris spare parts list differs. Not only does it quote 5 leaves plus 2 rebound, but it gives the part numbers for all seven leaves. (It also shows that the part numbers for the 2 rebound leaves changed at chassis M34700 - i.e. when the LWB chassis started, being shackled at the front.)

What all these references agree on is that there should be 2 rebound leaves.

Blower quotes the length (when loaded flat) to be 26.5" between spring eye centres (as does the Salesman's Handbook), and the i.d. of the eyes is 0.503" to give clearance for the 0.5" shackle pins.

The Morris parts list also gives us a clue that there were more than one spring supplier. It states, "IMPORTANT - When ordering spring leaves and components always state whether locating dowels are raised on the concave or convex position.

Once all this is sorted, there will be a Tech Topics article for the Magazine!

[Jpallis001]

Just had the tape measure out. My springs are 26 1/4" (centres of the eyes [unloaded]). 2 3/4" from a surface to the top base plate on the spring (spring sat on the surface resting on the outer diameter of the eyes) . (4 5/8" to the bottom base plate. Leaves are 1 1/4" wide.

Does that tell us anything?

[Ian Grace]

John, the curvature is virtually the same as mine, but the length between the eyes of your springs is too long. My good springs are 25 5/8". At 26 1/4" they would be much longer than 26 1/2 when loaded flat.

[Jpallis001]

Now I did wonder what would happen to the length of the spring when under load. There was not a H + S expert anywhere in sight, so popped in vice and turned the handle as much as I dared. Did not do such a good job positioning the tape measure, but the spring in the photo has 26 1/2" between eyes. Might make a good cross bow?

Spring_length.jpg (47.09 KiB) Viewed 3853 times

[Ian Grace]

Interesting experiment! It looks like these springs may just about fit a Minor, and I didn't have any problem with the seemingly identical springs I fitted on my Semi-sports. With the main leaf on top, I guess the front of the car would be raised an inch or so, since the spring sits on the axle beam. This should not be a problem.

[Jpallis001]

Wonder if they were designed for an off-road, Sports Utility Minor that needed that extra bit of ground clearance? (2 spring thicknesses)