New MoT proposal for our cars

[Ian Grace]

Kartik just sent me these two links regarding the UK Government's proposal to exempt pre-1960 vehicles from the MoT. The FBHVC are scrambling to survey owners so that they can co-ordinate a response by the end of January.

This seems to be a two-edged sword to me - it sounds good at first, but once these vehicles are exempt, it opens the door for restricting their use - which is the last thing we want, and which i think is the case in at least some other Euro contries. Any views? And please take the FBHVC survey.

http://fbhvc.co.uk/mot-survey/

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-27

[Mike Stubbings]

I do not think it a great hardship to take our cars for a once a year check. It may come up with something we have missed however meticulous we may be. I believe they base it on the fact that most owners on classic vehicles keep them in good condition anyway without the need for MOT. I do not believe that is the case. There are a lot of classic cars out there and I am sure some owners would take the short cut. I agree it sounds good in the first instant.Not all classic car owners are mechanical minded. Mike

[Ian Grace]

All good points Mike.

As an aside, it is interesting to me that there is no equivalent of the MoT here in the USA. Just some smog tests if you have your car registered in urban counties - which mine are not. So you can take anything you like on the roads - and many do! You should see the state of some pickup trucks which have had a hard life. Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any more accidents caused by faulty vehicles, which just goes to show that the main raison d'etre for the MoT is to raise funds for the Government and to keep the garage trade in business.

When I lived in Germany, my cars fell subject to the dreaded TuV tests which could only be performed by Government testing centres - and many repairs could only be carried out by garages - so that it was difficult or impossible to buy spare parts even for your modern car. The tests were due every two years, but were extremely tough to get through - even with a modern car. And there were far fewer grandfathered dispensations for older cars, which meant that pre-war cars had to be fitted with all sorts of ugly and incongruous modern lights.

I presume these latest proposals are designed to harmonize UK regulations with EU regs, but I could not be sure.

[Ian Grace]

Talking of money making scams, here's a couple more.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/04/de ... latestnews

So where does that $168 million go, and on what does it get spent? Will we need to buy carbon credits to run our smelly old Morrises soon?

And here's a telling story from Chiacgo, where the tolls on the highways are among the highest in the US. And do you know where all that dosh goes? To pay the pensions of the retired toll booth workers - and even that is not enough to cover their total pension bill!

[Ronald]

I can just imagine old cars being dragged out of barns, fresh petrol chucked in them get them running and off you go........... first corner,.............. damn, no brakes....!! worn out steering, dangerous bodywork...... alsorts of other things could and would cause issues..........

I don;t mind taking the annual trip to the garage, besides, i get trade rates..!

The biggest usse with mot-ing older cars is the testers lack of knowledge regarding the rules.......... luckily, my tester is happy with the car,..... he actually does quite a lot of older vehicles, he did have to draw the line at a cyclecar that wouldn;t fit on his ramp though!

[Ian Grace]

I wonder if it would be useful to UK members if all those UK members who have their cars regularly MoT'd could send in recommendations for their local old-car-friendly test stations and I could then compile a list for the website - probably in the Members' Area.

[Sam Christie]

I doubt if an end to the MOT for old cars would exempt them from having to be roadworthy. All the normal laws would surely still apply. And is insurance not liable to be invalidated if a car is unroadworthy ?

Oddly enough, in Northern Ireland the result of having no MOT for private cars prior to 1975 was (at that time) there were many fewer old cars on the roads than in GB where the annual MOT kept older vehicles in better order and thus on the road very much longer.

It is a digression, but the rule which annoys me most is that cars built before 1st January 1973 are exempt from road tax but built after that are liable to full duty.It seems particuarly silly when one has, for example, an MGB built in 1974. Attempts to change this back to a rolling 30 year rule (defined by the age of the car) have failed so far.

[Ian Grace]

The 1963 Sprite I just bought has a Washington State classic license plate with no annual fee, as it was built before 1970, BUT any car with a classic plate has severe restrictions imposed on its use, so, strictly, I shouldn't even use it to commute to the office, which is one of the main reasons why I bought it. It is more fun to drive than my Mercury Sable battleship, and uses about half the fuel. This is why I am leery of any MoT relaxation, as it will then be a small step to limiting the use of any cars without an MoT - even if they meet general roadworthiness regulatory laws.

I think, in the case of the Sprite that I may be able to get a regular license plate for it and stump up the annual licence fee if I want unrestricted use, but I'm not absolutely sure that once a car has been put on classic plates, then it can go back on normal plates. In any case, I don't suppose owners of pre-1973 cars in the UK would be given a choice of MoT or no MoT.

There is a similar issue going on in the de Havilland world right now. This month, DH Support Ltd., who hold the Type Certificates for all of the DH Moth types is relinquishing all of their certificates to the CAA, so owners will now be able to operate their aircraft on a Permit to Fly, which comes with many restrictions (no continental flights, no commercial operations, etc.). In this case, owners are to be offered the choice of Permit to Fly or full Certificate of Airworthiness, but, again, this will be an irreverisible decision - once an aircraft is put on a Permit, it will never again qualify for a C of A. So the pool of potential aircaft avaialble for hire, joy riding, etc. will dramatically diminish, as an aircraft needs an Air Transport C of A to do any kind of aerial work.

[ian judd]

If the MOT is dumped, it won't mean the end of expense and inspections. The insurance companies will surely demand an Engineers Report before insuring the car. This will almost certainly cost a good deal more the the current MOT - and who will supply these reports? Most likely, since they will have all the right equipment, your old MOT station!

Ian

[Ian Grace]

I just trawled through five pages of posts on the topic over on the VSCC forum - where there is a strong consensus (a rarity on that forum!) in favour of retaining the MoT, and I agree, for the reasons I gave above. Several posters made the point that the MoT at least gives every owner the opportunity to take a really good look under their car once a year - an opportunity that most of us don't have unless we have our own car lift.

My main concern with scrapping to MoT for our cars is that the next step will be to limit their mileage - and here it comes:

"EU Directive 2009/40/EC Article 4(2)
Member States may, after consulting the Commission, exclude from the scope of this Directive, or subject to special provisions, certain vehicles operated or used in exceptional conditions and vehicles which are never, or hardly ever, used on public highways, including vehicles of historic interest which were manufactured before 1 January 1960 or which are temporarily withdrawn from circulation."

There is also a post mentioning that our very own Matt Bell, who now writes for the Automobile, covered the topic in the January issue - page 11. Can anyone post a scan? If not, I will contact Matt for a copy.

[Jpallis001]

For Information: I have just attempted to renew my Car Tax online. The system refused to process my application because I do not have a current MOT. I do have an MOT valid until 22nd Dec. When I managed to talk to a human, they tell me that if the vehicle is exempt from an MOT, and it still has a valid MOT, it will not be possible to renew online. I will need to wait until my current MOT expires before I re-apply. That is ok for me, but I did ask what would have happened if my MOT was valid until Feb? - I could hear the head-scratching, but no real reply.

John

[Trevor Wilkinson]

Definitely no problem when the MoT has expired, I have just renewed on line and my MoT expired in October.
It is still possible to renew at a post office with a signed declaration, (downloaded from DVLA site) stating that the vehicle is MoT exempt.

[Toby]

Any vehicle, any age, mot or no mot, has to be roadworthy and an mot will not save you from the hounds of the law banning you from using any vehicle with defects! Ian, there is already a website with old car friendly mot places. can't remember where I saw that though!!!

[Tom]

Toby,
it is the FBHVC that has compiled a list of "old car friendly" MoT garages.
Tom

[Toby]

Knew I'd seen it somewhere! Must have been in the Morris register magazine.