Information exchange

[Ian Grace]

I’m writing a piece for M 139 about the exchange of information regarding the specifications of our cars. If you look at the threads in 'Our Cars' and elsewhere on this forum, many of the questions that come up from owners/restorers centre around how our cars fit together, what materials are used, how does this fit to that, etc., etc. The most urgent pleas come from owners of cars that have been tampered with in the past and have lost many of their original parts.

It seems to me that there is a need and an opportunity for the Register to help a great in this area. A couple of members have provided substantial sets of good resolution photos of their original cars - either assembled, or better - in pieces, which are invaluable to others restoring the same sort of car, and I think we should try to expand this and offer CD's of images for each of the models and seasons of cars that we cater for. Indeed, such CD's could combine photos of more than one car for cross-reference, as well as period photos of new or nearly new cars where available. Obviously we should be as careful as we can to not include images of modified parts - I recall that many years ago, Peter Vacher traveled to Ireland and faithfully copied the incorrect Semi-sports instrument board for his Semi-sports replica from Keiran White's modified car.

This is a question of 'correctness', as distinct from originality – which has more to do with a car possessing all of its own original parts. In the sixties, when in general the old car movement was beginning to gather momentum, but values were still low, owners - in general - weren't that worried about correctness - the thrust was to get the car on the road, and hopefully pass the old crocks test! But as our cars have aged and values soared, more and more restorers are going to great pains to restore authentically. This is a good thing for our cars because nobody likes to see a fine vintage car that looks nothing like it did originally, and our cars are definitely past the 'student hack' time of their lives. (But equally of course, we don't like to see a car off the road for decades just because the restorer cannot find the precisely correct sidelamps!) I can only suppose that as the decades roll on, it will be the trend to restore our cars to ever higher standards and levels of correctness - in which case, present-day restorers may be cursed for their lack of diligence - just as we often look back in horror today at some past 'restorations'.

So I am thinking of initiating an award at next year's Summer Rally for the most correctly-restored car, hopefully taking into account the state of correctness when the restoration was commenced, as it is obviously easier to restore a car that is 100% correct at the outset, but very much harder to track down all the right parts if they are either incorrect or missing. So we would need at least photographic evidence of the start point in order to judge the award. And not too much emphasis would be placed on condition (this would not be a beauty contest - it has got to be equally winnable for owners who actually drive their cars and get them dirty!)

I am going through a bit of this with the Tiger Moth at present. In the aircraft world, because of airworthiness requirements, one does not have the freedom to fit anything that will fit and do the job! Not only does one have to fit the correct parts, but those parts also have to come from approved sources, with release paperwork. So you cannot turn up a wing attachment pin on your lathe - even if you have the original factory drawing and the right material. However, the vast majority of Tiger Moths had all of their Air Ministry equipment stripped form them when they were demobbed in the fifties, and most owners, even if they paint their Moth in wartime comouflage, don't make any effort to return their aircraft to their wartime specification - lamps, Morse tapper, electrics, original instruments, cockpit placards, etc., etc. I am trying to do this with my Tiger and it is taking a lot of work to a) work out what was originally fitted, and b) sourcing the original parts, many of which are now extremely difficult to find. So a CD along the lines described above would be invaluable!

I'd welcome forumists' thoughts on correctness, reference CD's and an associated award for next year, as well as offers of photo sets and requests from those in need.

[Jpallis001]

Good idea Ian, I would have found a library of images really useful during my resoration journey.

Can I suggest three categories/sections for the image library: images of the finished/assembled vehicle (inside/outside/underneath/underbonnet/under dash etc); assembly photos showing assemblies in progressive stages of assembly (major assemblies - engine/chassis/gearbox/door/carb etc); and images of individual components.

Perhaps not a 2 minute job! but a realy useful resource for others

John

[Ian Grace]

That's a good idea John, and a fourth directory for photos of the cars when they were new. Then we could add images from Morris brochures, scans of the handbooks, period road tests, and on and on! It's pity that it couldn't all me made available online - there would be Gigabytes of data. But maybe if they were filtered for the best stuff, it could be cut down to fit on a DVD, which I think takes about 4.5 Gigs of data.

It should perhaps be mentioned that there is a ton of data already in the Members' Area of the website - period articles, images of as many surviving cars (and non-surviving 'lost' cars) as possible - hyperlinked from the chassis register, brochures, the SV Minor handbook,etc., etc. All additions gratefully received.

[halbe]

Excellent idea,
If you want to use VG let me know.

Kind regards,
Halbe

[Ian Grace]

Yes please Halbe!

[Toby]

exactly what I tried to start going with colours and a plea for hidden paint on unrestored cars to be logged before all original paint is lost! Don't recall any replies to it though... I have saved a piece of timber from UX that had the original blue on it although not enough to scan on a colour matcher.

[Mike Stubbings]

I think this needs to be thought about very carefully. William Morris was not a wasteful man and if there was parts or such lying around from an earlier model I understand he would use them somewhere.For instance I have seen chrome and nickel parts on the same car which were there from new. Back in the 50s I had a very original M8 saloon, the local landlords father
had the same model which he had from new and there were a few odd differences. Both were the same model,same year. To set one self up as judge and jury what was fitted and what was not I believe to be wrong. However the general idea of help is a good one. Mike

[Ian Grace]

Mike, that's why small print was invented!

You are right, orf course, and the situation is even more unclear with M Types (see thread elsewhere). However, the number of instances of Minor parts running past their change date is small in the scale of things. Thw website has a list of changes against chassis/engine numbers for the OHC cars extracted from the spares list, which at least defines the nominal changeover points.

The bigger problem is going to be finding recent photos of 'original' cars that show absolutely NO modifications that might confuse the uninitiated. I doubt whether there is a single Minor out there that is precisely as it left Cowley. My fabric saloon only has 4,000 miles on the clock, but it has many non-original features, including - as I found out very recently - a Wolseley Hornet body.

[garagiste]

Ian,

Please do you remember what was the thread subject for M types (mentioned in your last posting) and when this was discussed?

Thank you, David

[Ian Grace]

Here you go:

http://www.vintageminor.co.uk/Forum1/ph ... f=6&t=1129

[garagiste]

Ian,

Thank you.

David.

[Mike Stubbings]

Ian, Do you have a record of 33Minor Saloon MJ 1551. Mike

[Ian Grace]

Mike, no I don't - not on the chassis register. Have you any information?

[Mike Stubbings]

Hi Ian,

No sorry I do not have any records of this vehicle but I recently purchased something on ebay and it came wrapped it pages of car mechanics 1965 and shows a pic of this particular Minor. Not sure about copyright but I will email you pic.

The article reads"This is my 1933 Morris Minor after a 5yr strip and rebuild. The cost including purchase,has been £80".

Oh those were the days. Mike

[Toby]

It doesn't appear to be on the dvla database unless it's not a morris anymore...