starter problems.

Mike Stubbings · Post by **Mike Stubbings** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:14 pm

Hi All,

I wonder if any of you could shed light on my problem.

I have completely rewired my 32 Minor as 6volt. All seems work to OK except for one thing, the starter motor.

I have fitted all new battery cable,terminals , connections and isolater switch. While doing all this I used a brand new 6v battery from MG (57ah)
I dismantled the starter switch and thoroughly cleaned the whole thing, polished the plates and refitted it. Earth Battery cable goes almost direct to starter motor casing.
On completing I connected up the battery after a recharge and tried lights etc all seems well. With everything switched off I push the starter button only to find the starter turns just about 4 full turns and then stops (the engine is not stiff).
I am thinking the battery is not man enough. I try a variety of things without any change. I purchase a new Exide battery recommended by a friend who has used them without a problem. This one is 80ah. I fit it on the car only to find the same result. I have removed the starter motor and did a bench test and the starter turned over much,much quicker.
I then dismantled the starter, trued up the commutator then bedded in the brushes, thoroughly cleaned all and re-assembled . Bench test showed improvement. Refitted motor only to find same problem.Anyone out there found the same problem and cure. Please do not tell me to convert to 12v. Mike

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:51 am

The MGB battery is not realy man enough. If you get the heavy duty version (19 plate) of battery number 404 from Lincon Batteries in Essex you should have no trouble in future. They advertise in the Automobile and come by courier next day dry with the acid in bottles only requiring filling and a long slow charge. I am in the library and quoting from memory but will confirm later today that the above is correct.

I have just reread your post.

Take the battery negative directly to one of the starter fixing bolts and check the attachment of the earthed brush in the starter motor.

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:27 am

Still in the library.

Connect a voltmeter between the battery + post and the starter motor + terminal thread or nut and check the voltage drop when the starter button is pushed - it should be nil or very very small. If OK do the same from the battery - post and the body of the starter motor and do same check. These checks will show up any resistance in the cables. I always solder the terminals on to the cables.

Mike Stubbings · Post by **Mike Stubbings** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:23 am

Thanks for suggestions and help from a number of people.
All the thing you have all suggested I have tried. Going through the system very carefully quite a few times.
All the battery cables are new as are the terminals and they are all soldered on. I have always made sure when making an earth point that the metal is shiney and clean. The earth cable is as short as can be in its run to the starter mounting.
I am now thinking that although the motor run on the bench (not extremely fast) it is possibly the problem. I do not have another one to try so I think I shall have to have this one rewound and hope that cures the problem.

On the subject of earth, it is most important to get a really good earth. I always earth all lights independently. Run a good earth wire from chassis to engine. Lesson learned many years ago driving 1930s cars as everday transport on dark winter nights.

Thanks Simon and Toby for you help and suggestions. Going to try voltage drop test again. One thing I have noticed is that the old battery leads had quite thick strands. The new cable is the same size but the wire strands are much thinner although there are a lot more of them.Any thoughts on that point?

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:53 pm

You say that you have just rewired the car as 6v. Assuming that it was previously 12v I am assuming that you have checked that your starter motor is as 6v one!!!! You should be able to pick one up at Beaulieu.

I was correct the best battery is 404 - 19 plate

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:36 pm

I can exchange a knackered one for you and then swap it for yours if you wish? My brother lives in Reading and shares our stall at Beaulieu so could get it back to Reading that weekend....

Mike Stubbings · Post by **Mike Stubbings** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:20 pm

Simon,

I rewired the car after I purchased it a while back, it had been partially restored and had no wiring but the dynamo and starter were there with other 6v components so I went down the 6v route.

Toby.

I spoke to a rewind company today and they are getting back to me tomorrow so will know more then.
May well take you up on your offer.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:29 am

the beaulieu ones are classic and vintage 01623 747666

Mike Stubbings · Post by **Mike Stubbings** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:49 pm

Hi All,

Dispatched starter motor to Classic & Vintage Dynamo on Wed 24th they recieved it last Monday morning, I had a phone call
Tuesday morning to say it was ready and received it back Tuesday morning. 5 working days from dispatch to return,not bad.

I have refitted motor to engine making sure all mating faces are perfectly clean, before I did anything further I connected battery and pushed starter button. It did turn over with more life than before although not as fast as I would expect.

I have not had a chance to do any further but will do voltage drop test as soon as I get the chance. Mike

Mike Stubbings · Post by **Mike Stubbings** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:36 pm

Sorry, should read received it back Wednesday morning. Mike

Mike Stubbings · Post by **Mike Stubbings** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:16 pm

Hi All,

Overhauled starter motor fitted and new fully charged Exide 80ah battery, various changes to earth cable, no improvement.

Mike

Post by **Ian Grace** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:35 pm

Mike,

How stiff is your engine? Was it recently rebuilt?

Mike Stubbings · Post by **Mike Stubbings** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:40 pm

Hi Ian,

I am not sure what was done to the engine, the guy who was doing the car died before I had it. The engine does not feel stiff
at all. I have tried all the obvious things. I have tried a voltage drop test and it does not seem to drop enough to cause this problem. I can hold the starter down for quite a while and the engine will turn over slowly but nothing gets hot which I would expect. I am going to by pass the positive switches, starter and isolation, and do a flash test straight to the positive connector on the starter to see if the starter will spin the engine.Best regards , Mike.

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:37 am

What voltage drop are you getting measured directly between the battery terminal and the starter motor terminal or body. they should be very small indeed, fractions of a volt. I await the result of your tests.

garagiste · Post by **garagiste** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:32 am

Are you used to and comparing the rate at which it turns over with a modern car?

My 6v M Type with a fully charged battery turns over very slowly when cold, but it fires up without problem. The starter spins much more freely when the motor is warm.

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