M22335 (1930) Minor Tourer (India)

[KartikeyaL]

Another picture showing the 3 of us maneuvering through the trafiic
and people keeping a safe distance.

[Ian Grace]

Kartik, you exemplify the true spirit of the Register. Our primarily goal is to see more Minors returned to the road and being enjoyed. There are far too many Minors that have languished neglected for too many years, and the worst thing you can do to a car like a Minor is not use it. It deteriorates steadily and insidiously - as I am finding with my fabric saloon. Keep up the great work – it is an inspiration and encouragement to others - including myself!

[KartikeyaL]

In the last few days I have managed to get a nice su carb, got a flange made and its now fitted to the car,
we have fitted the front foot boards and the fuel tank.

The accelerator was getting stuck on the last drive and is now well adjusted and works well,
will go for a short drive today and if all looks good, will take it for a longer drive on sunday ( tomorrow).

regards
Kartik

[Ian Grace]

Must have been interesting in that traffic with a stuck accelerator!

Happy Minor motoring this weekend - even if there are no Minor roads!

[KartikeyaL]

Well, the Long drive did not happen and will take some more time.

The short drive that we took revealed that the engine works even better now,
we have issues which we need to sort out with the Accelerator / clutch and brake linkages and springs.

Once we apply the brakes the brake shoes/ liners are getting stuck
and the car doesnt move easily , brake cable's needs to be adjusted.

hope to sort out these small issues soon and will report more later.

regards
Kartik

[Ian Grace]

Kartik,

Intrigued by the brakes sticking - are the brake cams sticking? Or are the brakes just adjusted up too tight? I guess the brake shoe return springs are sound and doing their job? The brake pedal return spring should have no effect on brake pull-off. The only other thing I can think of is the brake cross-shaft might be seizing in its three bushes - these should be quite loose - to allow for flexing in the chassis.

Anyway, keep up the great work!

[Jpallis001]

Hi Kartik - I have one of my cable based, rear brake assemblies in 'bits' at the moment if you need any photos that show how the bushes etc fit just shout.

{if the linings/shoe heels/drums were really, really warn, might the cam turn through 90 degrees and park itself on the wrong part of the cam? - that would require 28mm of wear! - perhaps not possible? + you would notice one of the brake levers stuck in a horizontal position}

John

[KartikeyaL]

Hi John,

If you could upload some pictures that would be of great help.

The drums were really very hot.
I think as Ian pointed out it could be the brake cross-shaft which I think is not loose right now,
doesnt have much play.

will wait for the pcitures.

thanks in advance
Kartik

[Ian Grace]

Kartik,

You can do a quick and easy check on the brake cam levers. The return springs are not strong enough to prevent you grasping the levers and pulling the brake on - one at a time. This will confirm that they are basically functioning and that the lever springs back when you release it, confirming the action of the pull-off springs. At the same time, you'll be able to judge the amount of movement and whether the levers are pulling towards the vertical or over the vertical.

I hve suffered a seized brake cam in the past - the cause is lack of lubrication - the first sign is a burning smell! The fix (it was on a long journey) was to back the adjusting nut right off and force the lever upright with a mole wernch. I carried on quite happily with the other three brakes - for about three months.

Although your car is 1930 season, it may be worth repeating for others that the 1929 OHC brake lever castings are designed such that they lean away from the cable by about 15 degrees (that's a guess, not a book figure!), and so it doesn't take much wear in the system for them to pull over-centre when applied, which greatly reduces braking efficiency. To overcome this design fault, the later OHC and SV levers were leaned about 30 degrees, and some MG's had levers that leaned over about 45 degrees.

I'd recommend anyone with a '29 Minor to trawl the autojumbles for a set of later brake cam levers and commit the originals to their garage museum shelf.

[Jpallis001]

Hi Kartik - a couple of photos as promised + a few nuggets of Minor ;knowledge' gained from the Communities:

The front and rear backplates are the same; the plate itself has two identical bosses, that hold the brake pivot and brake cam, 'crimped' to it - these bosses often become loose and cause problems. It is best to have these repaired by brazing rather welding (less heat = less distortion) - need to make sure that the bosses are square when re-fixed. The bushes that are used are the same on both the pivot and the cam. (Ian Harris has new bushes that can be driven out/in with a 17.3mm punch).

When fitting the brake shoes, check the wire loops that the springs attach to, some are bent - the bend should be fitted towards the backplate. The aluminium shoes have steel 'heels' fitted to the end that sits on the cam. They wear; sometimes it is possible, if there is only one depression worn into the heel, to fit the shoe so that the cam wears on the unworn area of the heel. The aluminium shoes mean that you will need longer rivets than you would with steel shoes.

backplate repair1.jpg (89.28 KiB) Viewed 3726 times

brake cam assembly.jpg (73.26 KiB) Viewed 3727 times

[Ian Grace]

Thanks for that John - very useful for many.

I'll try to add a couple of bits and pieces from my experience.

You can remove the old bronze bushes by carefully inserting a hacksaw blade through the bush and cutting through them, being careful not to cut into the steel bush. Once cut through, they are easy to push out and new bushes can be pressed in using a vice.

The trickiest part is then to ream the bushes to fit the new brake cams. (These cams are almost always found to be worn and should be replaced if there is ANY detectible wear.) For this you will need an expanding reamer, and the process is just like the kingpin bush reaming. The objective is to have free movement, but no play whatsoever.

There should be a large steel washer under the head of the brake cam - not visible in John's photos.

When dismantling the brakes, have a piece of stout electrical wire about three feet long handy. You can pass it under the hooks on the ends of the brake shoe return springs, wind the ends around your hand about three times and then you can pull the springs out of the steel loops on the brake shoes. Use a similar technique to refit them, hanging the bottom shoe on the cam and fulcrum pin first, but this time have something like a large screw driver so that you can ease the hooks over the loops as you pull the wire with your other hand.

If you are completely stuck for a reamer or new bushes, simply swap the backplates left to right on the axle. Remove the brake fulcrum pins and fit them in the other steel bush. Chances are that the fulcrum bushes are in much better shape than the brake cam bushes.

Mike Dowley at Sports & Vintage has new brake cams, bushes, return springs, fulcrum pins and cotters, brake drum screws, rear axle seals, hub felt seals - all same as M Type.

You might find lead anti-squeak weights fitted to your shoes. These were widely (if not universally?) used on M Types.

Make sure that the grease in the brake cam works, and that grease is getting to the cam before refitting the brake drum.

Brake drum screws can be sods to undo if they have been left undisturbed for many years. Use a centre punch in the screw driver slot if need be to drive them round anticlockwise. The front and rear brake drum screws are different lengths.

Fit rear axle oil seals to prevent oil getting to the rear brake shoes. Better, fit two each side and drill a small hole in the axle casing between them so that any oil getting past the first one drains to the road. And under-fill the diff. with oil - just make sure the crown wheel dips into the oil and try not to leave the car parked at an angle.

[ian judd]

Oil leaking out onto the brakes is a nightmare! I use fully sealed bearings, a scroll inside the tube (S+V), and 'proper' oil seal behind the hub. I didn't use to have all that, but I found I was throwing out too many oil-soaked linings and, apart from the mess, it was getting expensive... mostly from the nearside. I have never had much luck with the felt type. The scrolls which S+V sell are plastic and work well.

Ian

[Ian Grace]

Ian,

Interested in your comments re alternative to to felt seals. What do you use and where do you get them from? I'm about to order for the fabric saloon.

[KartikeyaL]

Thanks John , Ian and Ian,

With all this Info, we'd surely solve the problem,
will update soon.

regards
Kartik

[ian judd]

Ian,

The type of seal I use, which is still not 100% effective, is the flexible Morris Eight type ( there is also a rigid type). I had to use the soft kind because it has to squeeze into a holder on the back of the hub. The holder is made from a tin lid the same size as the seal with a hole through it, this is soldered on to the hub.Not pretty but it works and has the advantage of being very narrow as there is little room. However, it is difficult to stop the seal from turning in the holder which leads to oil getting round the outer edge of it. It would be best to machine one and screw it to the back, then you could be sure of a good fit for the seal.

The later Minor hubs have , like the Morris 8, an extra bit on the back, accessible from the inside, which will accept felt or plastic seals but I have never managed to find any. If anyone has some under the bench I'd be interested!

But I think the scroll in the tube together with a fully sealed bearing work well on their own.

Ian