newsletter 151

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sv4670
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:15 pm

newsletter 151

Post by sv4670 »

Ian

Lovely Newsletter, very well presented. The article about 'A' frame towing was interesting as I intend to make one myself at some point. I have towed trials cars using these devices for many thousands of miles and can confirm they do work well. I do have some advice to offer though:

Unless towing a short distance it is advisable to disconnect the propshaft from the diff. If this is not done there is danger the gearbox can be damaged; this happened to one of my cars:
When being towed the gearbox main shaft is rotating and the first motion shaft is stationary. These shafts are coaxial and there is a bearing between the two parts. In top gear the shafts rotate at the same speed and in intermediate gears there is a speed differential between the shafts. When towing though the speed differential between the mainshaft and first motion shaft is greater than would normally be encountered and it is for a much longer period of time. The result is the bearing overheats and fails.

Another point to note there is a weight limit for unbraked trailers which is effectively what the towed car is. Try to lighten the towed vehicle as much as possible and pile the weight into the back of the tow car - it helps prevent jack-knifing.

One final thing: 2015 subs - can these be paid by bank transfer?
tonym
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: newsletter 151

Post by tonym »

My engineering guru - who did all the work on my car - including extensive work on the gearbox, assured me that there would not be an issue with it.
We decided that with oil level at it's recommended height, then there would be enough sent thrashing around within the gearbox to keep the gears and bearing lubricated.
As I said in my bit in the bulletin, we towed for well over 300 miles there and another 300 back from Scotland without any ill effect to the box.
Bob, the guru, would not have been at all happy, after all his work, if there was any likelihood of damaging his handywork.
As far as I am aware an M [and presumably a MM tourer] would be well within the weight limits for an unbraked trailer.
Ian Grace
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Re: newsletter 151

Post by Ian Grace »

Interesting thoughts guys, but to answer re the subs question - yes, these can be paid by direct transfer and even annual direct debit. I'd prefer not to publish my bank detials, though, so just shoot me an e-mail and I will send details by return.

Cheers,

Ian
sv4670
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:15 pm

Re: newsletter 151

Post by sv4670 »

tonym wrote:My engineering guru - who did all the work on my car - including extensive work on the gearbox, assured me that there would not be an issue with it.
We decided that with oil level at it's recommended height, then there would be enough sent thrashing around within the gearbox to keep the gears and bearing lubricated.
As I said in my bit in the bulletin, we towed for well over 300 miles there and another 300 back from Scotland without any ill effect to the box.
Bob, the guru, would not have been at all happy, after all his work, if there was any likelihood of damaging his handywork.
As far as I am aware an M [and presumably a MM tourer] would be well within the weight limits for an unbraked trailer.
Tony, pleased to hear your towing frame works well; I was just sharing an experience I have had when using the devices. I know of other instances of the problem I described but in both cases the problem was with a Mk2 Escort gearbox; maybe they were close to failure in anycase.
tonym
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: newsletter 151

Post by tonym »

Derek
Very interesting ! - as we seem to be discussing the same topic on two different websites !!!!!
Ian Grace
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Location: USA

Re: newsletter 151

Post by Ian Grace »

Martin Watts just sent in this interesting feedback. Any thoughts anyone? I thought I might contact thew FBHVC to see if they can throw any light on the topic.

" I am intrigued by Tony’s Tow Frame!, (M 151, Technical Topics) What a great bit of kit! I was inspired to get the welding gear out! However, after chatting to my son about the device he not only came up with details of similar (much more complex and expensive) items advertised on the “net” but also concerns about legality, particularly bearing in mind the recent changes in the law (UK) regarding towing… I wonder if Tony, or any other members, have any ideas in this regard. I enclose some notes below.

Regards, Martin

Reading more and more. it is very very thin ice. and the law changed last year. You run a real risk of getting pulled over. Here's why.

If the GROSS weight of the trailer is over 750kg it must be braked (minimum 50% of its normal braking capacity) and must have break-away system. Car is 780ish kg which you could argue, but this is kerb weight not gross weight. Gross weight will be 400-500kg more than this typically so well over the 750kg limit - no chance to argue that. So then you're into braked territory....

BUT new law states the inertia (i.e. overrun) type system can ONLY be used for centre wheeled trailers (not cars, or any other trailer with wheels at each corner). So then you have to use a power brake system. i.e. something that see's you pressing the brake pedal in the tow car and puts the brakes on in the towed car. You're into the realm of that fancy £1800 system which has all kids of electronic gyros and sensors in the tow car and systems in the towed car to power brake mechanism. Its a nightmare. You are legally allowed to use an a frame to tow a car of any weight 'to a safe place' i.e. minimum possible distance to get it safe but not to transport a car."
sv4670
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:15 pm

Re: newsletter 151

Post by sv4670 »

Interesting. Since the M type weighs 10cwt, or around 500kg, it is comfortably under the 750kg rule. Personally I would not want to tow more than 500kg unbraked as even with a large car - Passat Estate - an emergency stop could result in a jack knife. That is why I suggest reducing the weight of the towed vehicle as much as possible and putting it into the back of the tow car. Used sensibly these are brilliant devices and potentially safer than a badly loaded trailer- braked or not. So much more convenient than a trailer and no storage problems.
tonym
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: newsletter 151

Post by tonym »

My thoughts - as requested.

I don't know where Martin has got his gross weight for an M-type from, but it is way out.
Remember here I am talking about an M-type [& by default a Minor] tourer. I don't have a clue as to how much more a saloon weighs.
Mr Blower's handbook gives the chassis weight of an M as 8cwt + a few pounds. 750 kilo is just over 14cwt. - so plenty of spare capacity there - almost x2 !
Derek mentions 10cwt as the weight of the car - presumably complete with body. I wouldn't have thought that a body would weigh so much - as we two elderly blokes easily managed to lift it off.
Chassis weight means chassis, running gear and engine.
By the by - a complete i:e with body, fuel and a 6 cylinder lump of an engine - MG F2 weighs 728 kilo - and that is still well under the 750 kilo limit.
I have done some hard breaking tests with the M attached to my modern, and I can assure you, that with my A frame set up there was no evidence of jack knifing.
I will be continuing to tow my car as before - despite the nay sayers !!!
This year there will be a 460 mile round trip to Reading and back with it.
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