Early kingpins

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Early kingpins

Postby Ian Grace » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:24 pm

A member is looking for a set of early kingpins and I contacted Ian Harris over the weekend to confirm that he has these in stock. He has not. These are the pins originally fitted to chassis MM101 to M29527 that take the brake cable pulley underneath the pin. Because of the close proximity of the shackled pulley to the axle drop, the pulley post is offset outboard on these pins - i.e. opposite the cotter slot as the pin is viewed endwise. The later OHC and SV pulley brake pins had the pulley post positioned on the same side as the cotter slot and should NOT be used if the pulleys are to be mounted underneath the pin.

Many members get around the shortage of these early pins by fitting Bowden cables and doing away with the pulleys entirely. Unless anyone knows of an alternative source for these pins, that is the only option right now - unless we have another batch of early pins made - as we did about five years ago.

I believe that Ian Harris has the early pulleys and shackles, but he has promised me an updated catalogue in a couple of weeks which I will post on the website. The good news is that Ian has the later type pulley pins and pulleys, so we are OK for cars from chassis M29528 to the end of 1933 season SV production.

Is there sufficient interest to have another batch of early pins made? We'd probably need a run of at least a dozen sets to keep the price reasonable.
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Tony Gamble » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:54 am

Ian

Try John Davis 01724 784230 he has most king pins.

johndavis.vintage@btinternet.com



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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:20 pm

I still have a set from previous production run, with the pulleys, available at the original cost....
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Ian Grace » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:05 am

Toby wrote:I still have a set from previous production run, with the pulleys, available at the original cost....


Presumably for the SV? It is the OHC ones that are out of stock, Toby.
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:04 pm

These were the cammy ones with small pulleys that Chris had made, cotter on post side
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby halbe » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:07 am

Toby

How much did they cost ?

Regards
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:41 am

I am trying to find out, will have to trawl through my accounts to find when it was and a cheque book stub to the vmr for more than £20! but if Ian is right and they were wrong then I will keep them for my sv minor and just sell the ohc pulleys that came in the set. All the other 19 sets of them seem to have been used without problems on early ohc cars...
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Ian Grace » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:22 pm

The problem with the early brake arrangement with the pulleys underneath the kingpin is that the small bronze shackled pulley mounted under the pin can foul on the the underside of the axle beam as it drops from the axle eye to the front spring. Morris made the pulley as small as possible and the shackle as short as possible, but it still wasn't enough. The fix was to offset the pulley post as far as possible - so that the vertical axis of the the pulley post is as far outboard as possible - which is therefore on the OPPOSITE side to the cotter slot which is on the inboard side of the pin.

I once tried to fit the later pins (pulley post and cotter slot on the same side), and it is definitely not possible to set it up without the pulley fouling on the axle. There is some adjustment, because the cotter slot is wider than the cotter pin, so you can tap the pin down from the top of the stub axle as far as it will go before tightening the cotter pin. However, even if you do this, then the pulley still fouls the axle - you do need the right pins. For the later OHC and SV cars, the pulley post is on the top, and it really doesn't matter which of the two pulley pin types you use. The only consequence of using the early pins in these cars would be a slight misalignment in the cable between the pulley and the brake cam lever. It is these later pins that Ian Harris has in stock. The question is - is there sufficient interest to have a batch of the early pins made - from owners of pre-M29528 Minors interested in fitting the original braking system, rather than Bowdens or hydraulics.
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 pm

The batch you commisioned last time were made with the slot on the wrong side and were returned and remachined with another slot on the other side so they were reversible. I kept mine as i had sv cars so it wasn't a problem! It does mean I have a set of brand new pulleys with shackles and posts.
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Ian Grace » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:35 pm

That's right. I had a late type kingpin as a pattern and asked them to reverse the cotter slot, but they didn't, and so we ended up with late pins! :?
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:47 pm

£50 plus p&p would secure a set of the small type pulleys and posts.... It appears they were that cost to me, and the pins were £60. (might have been the other way round!!!)
I am looking to see if I have any early pins.
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:16 pm

By the way, sometimes it is the bushes worn, not the kingpin. If the king pins are ok I have some new bushes and also 2nd hand early kingpins...
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:29 pm

Image
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Ian Grace » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:40 pm

Toby,

I'll send you fifty quid for the pulley gear if that is OK - I'll probably need them for the fabric saloon. Happy to pick them up at Prescott.
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Re: Early kingpins

Postby Toby » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:02 am

I have found a pair with slot on opposite side to post while clearing out non minor stuff although the box says 1931-33! £65 plus p& p. Any takers.... :D
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
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