JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

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Jpallis001
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:08 pm
Location: Durham

JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Jpallis001 »

Hi - I am sure that I have broken all of the rules of sensible restoration; bought a Minor off eBay on a whim; without a master plan, I have stripped in down it to lots and lots of bits! Of course I did get a lot of enjoyment out of taking it to bits - I am sure that I will remember where most things go!

The engine came without pistons and con rods connected, but with a collection of 4 rods an pistons that did not belong to the engine. Is it possible to source good con rods and new, oversize pistons?

I am having trouble removing the flywheel, nut removed + puller made; any tricks/tips? Also looking for a good passenger side door + interior?

What threads are used on the head nuts, the big ends and the sump? metric ??

John Pallister

John@JohnPallister.net
Ian Grace
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Ian Grace »

Hello John, and welcome to the Register!

I'm going to say that allthe threads on the Minor are BSF - no metric. I', prety sure that metric threads only crept on om the Morris 8. No doubt I'll be corrected swiftly if I am wrong!

Oversize pistons xcan be ontained from Mike Dowley at Sports & Vintage Motors (01939/210458). I strongly recommend that you obtain one of Mike's catalogues, as you will be sourcing a good many parts from him - anything that is common to the M Type.

As for rods, it is possible to obtain new ones (with shells) for new cranks, but you would be far better off looking for an original set - can anyone help John out?

For the benefit of others, here's John's new acquisition:

Image
Jpallis001
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:08 pm
Location: Durham

Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Jpallis001 »

Thanks Ian - continuing to take thinks to pieces, chassis taken to grit blasters and engine left with workshop to be bored and fitted with liners, hope the Morris engine has 'enough' metal for liners!

Anyone got the dimensions for the pins/bolts that go through the rear, upper spring hanger {to chassis} ? also need to make a pipe from the sump to the oil pump any advice

The engine number is 29309a {sv + 198163h also in casting}

The chassis number is 28 7 03 { the 7, I think is a 7 -- might be clearer when it comes back from blasting - although I did have a good go with the wire brush.

I do not have a log book for it, cannot check numbers - will need to contact DVLC with this info to find out what I need to do. -- engine in for a rebore + have liners fitted, hope there is enough metal in the block!

John
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Ian Grace »

John,

The chassis number and engine number seem to tie up - the engine numbers were in advance of the chassis number for two reasons. First, the chassis started with SV101, but the engines started at 501 (don't ask me why!). Second, Morris made more engines than cars since spares were needed, and also some engines were used in marine applications.

So I will add these numbers to the chassis register until I hear otherwise from you.

Now to the reclaiming of the registration number. Do you have any paperwork that would tie the registration number to the car? MoT certificate, old tax disk? If not, then things will be tricky. Until recently the point man for DVLA for Morris cars was Harry Edwards - historian of the Morris Register, but sadly he passed away last month. I am currently trying to re-register my 1930 Minor fabric saloon, and Mike Worthington-Williams is acting as DVLA point man for that. If you like, I'll put you on to him. If he can't help, nobody can!

One thing you could do - contact BMIHT at Gaydon and give them the chassis number and engine number - SV28703 and U29309 and they will be able to pull the build data from the original progress books. Ask them for a heritage certificate (there is a small fee for this), and this will greatly bolster your case. But your biggest problem will be tying the registration number to the car - the fact that it has JF plates on it won't impress DVLA at all!

Having said all that, don't let the situation with the number spoil your enjoyment of the car. If you have to get a period number from DVLA, you won't notice the difference at 50 mph on the open road!
Jpallis001
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:08 pm
Location: Durham

Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Jpallis001 »

The plate on the firewall (photo below) confirms the engine + chassis numbers. Collected bits from the shot blaster today, not sure if I will remember where all the bits go! More repairs required to the doors and wings than I thought.

Also, the front passengers side chassis dumb-iron runs out by approx 20mm whereas the drivers side is 'straight' with the main chassis rail. Any tricks for staightening? I assume both should be 'straight'?

John
Attachments
engine 1.jpg
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morris plate.JPG (201.01 KiB) Viewed 9258 times
chassis.JPG
chassis.JPG (33.49 KiB) Viewed 9242 times
Jpallis001
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:08 pm
Location: Durham

Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Jpallis001 »

wonder if they will go back together?
Attachments
morris to assemble.JPG
morris to assemble.JPG (136.59 KiB) Viewed 9238 times
Ian Grace
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Ian Grace »

Hi John,

Well, nobody can accuse you of swinging the lead! Looking fantastic.

The chassis rails should be straight. It is worth calling a few commercial vehicle shops as they often have the heavy equipment to straighten things. I had my front axle beam very successfully straightened by a truck shop in Michigan.

Ian
Jpallis001
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:08 pm
Location: Durham

Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Jpallis001 »

Thanks Ian - do you know what the distance between the two front shakle pins should be? ie the 'gap' between the irons

John
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Ian Grace »

No - not off hand, and I don't have a chassis at my house to measure right now. Could someone else do the honours for John?
Toby
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Toby »

will check. I may be able to help with door, how bad is yours? :?
if it's got wheels or chips - it'll cost you dear
Jpallis001
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:08 pm
Location: Durham

Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Jpallis001 »

Thanks Toby - door is repairable; new frame + bottom quarter + most of the steel 'surround'. Managed to 'straighten' chassis leg + or minus 5mm! with home-made jig/jack.
chassis jig.jpg
chassis jig.jpg (137.5 KiB) Viewed 9079 times
Recieved the Heritage certificate today. Not sure what it is telling me - it gives chassis number {sv/28703} and engine {29509} whereas the Plate on the bulkhead {looks original} - gives Car No as 28703 and Engine 29309a [see phot above] any suggestions?

Certificate shows: RHD, Home Market, colour and trim colour not recorded

Build Date {7 - 9th March 1933} - despatch date 9th March 1933} - dealer {not recorded}

Shame I still do not know correct colour.
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Ian Grace »

John,

Congrats on getting your chassis straight!

Regarding your Heritage Certificate, the data provided comes from the original production 'Progress Books', which were written in manuscript. I suspect that the staff at Gaydon mis-read the engine number when preparing your certificate. There are instances in the Progress Books where more than one engine number is recorded. These are the rare instances when engines failed during factory chassis or road test, or were replaced under guarantee. But in your case, the engine number stamped on the production line on your chassis plate matches that on your block - so this is almost certainly a transcription error by the Gaydon staff. I would call them and ask to double check the Progress Book engine number entry.

Unfortunately, the Progress Books do not record coachwork colour, or any registration/first owner details.

Standard colours for the 1933 season saloons were blue with brown trim, green or black with green trim. Is there any original trim remnants in the car?
Jpallis001
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:08 pm
Location: Durham

Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Jpallis001 »

Thanks Ian - I have eMailed Gaydon to ask then to check (enclose photo of plate). I have some 'green' seat covers + door cards - not really sure if they are original to car. I will have a scrape at the body + look for clues. If it was green, is there a name or code for the paint?

Does anyone know what DVLA form I will need to complete? I am looking at a V62, but not sure if it collects the info that will need.

Also, have had the crank ground to 1.475 +/- 0.001; what should the big-end of the con-rod be machined to?

John
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Ian Grace »

John,

Re recovering the registration of your car, here's the info. you need - courtesy of the late Harry Edwards:

"As briefly as I can I'll explain the "765" system.

The owner claiming the return of a registration number has to be applying from a UK address.

You need the original old type "log book" which, of course, confirms the original chassis number and the registration number. This is generally the only document that actually ties the chassis number to the registration number.

It is helpful, but not necessary, to have an old tax disc.

Any document you wish to submit must be the original, OR the DVLA will accept photocopies that have been copied by a DVLA office, but not by you or I. Such copies are then stamped by the DVLA office to say that they have seen the originals.

You require to obtain the application form "V765" from the DVLA.

You require to obtain a form "V55/5", this one either from the DVLA or from a post office that handles the issue of the "Road Tax" disc,

It is often helpful if you can supply a copy of the Production Record Certificate from Gaydon.

You are required to supply a current photograph of the vehicle as a "complete entity "(the DVLA wording).

Having filled in all the details/forms etc you then send the forms to the appropriate Club official who is designated by the DVLA. He or she then confirms the car model dating etc and signs the V765 form. In addition to that the owner of the car has to get someone ,who is not the owner or the Club official, to fill in an inspection form confirming such data as chassis/ model as correct to description Such inspection form is supplied by the Club official.

You send all the details/forms etc to the Club official designated by the DVLA to deal with cars covered by the club. In the case of all pre-war Morris models, except Bullnose and Flatnose models, you will find that I am designated as the person to deal with the pre-war Morris except as mentioned above. For Bullnose and Flatnose models (1913 to 1931) the Bullnose Morris Club official handles the V765 requests.

As for the time factor that is in the hands of the DVLA at Swansea. Assuming no queries a couple of weeks, one hopes."

Harry was the designated official for Morris cars, but I am using the motoring historian Mike Worthington-Williams to handle KR 5670. I will e-mail you his contact details.

There are no paint codes, unfortunately.

Ian
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Re: JF 4238 1933 Minor Saloon

Post by Ian Grace »

John,

To answer your question about machining the con-rod big ends, your white metal man should handle this - machining slightly undersize with respect to the crank and then scraping in the bearings to suite each individual crankshaft journal. And this includes the white metaled main.

The time-honoured method for getting the big ends right is to scrape them using engineers blue to find the high spots. Then bolt the rod onto the crank and check that, when the rod is held horizontal, the little end JUST falls under its own weight. Once all scraped in and set, mark the rods 1, 2, 3, 4 to keep them in order for final assembly.

Does that answer your query?
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