N5490

Use this area to post details of your cars, your restorations, photos or rally reports.

Moderators: Ian Grace, Will Grace

Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

In other de Havilland news is the first flight of a DH Mosquito in New Zealand on September 29th. Hugely significant because there has been no airworthy Mossie for many years. Google it for some superb videos.

Here's just one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzDg_6u ... re=related
Sam Christie
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:37 am

Re: N5490

Post by Sam Christie »

I have been following this restoration and although I hoped, I never really believed it would happen. It is a fabulous aircraft and a wonderful achievement.
Last edited by Sam Christie on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

I'm assembling a website to capture the history and restoration of N-5490. It is currently piggy-backed on the VMR website at the address below. I have put a good deal of information into the History link - next will be to add some restoration details.

http://www.vintageminor.co.uk/N5490/
plj
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:23 am

Re: N5490

Post by plj »

Ian,

This takes me back a bit, in the late 50's as an apprentice working in Croydon I used to cycle past the aerodrome plus swim at Purley Way open air pool opposite.
I was fascinated by aircraft at the time and spent much time at the (I think?) Royal Surrey Flying Club based at the Purley end of the airport with their collection of Tiger Moths. Ingratiating myself by virtue of odd jobs, sweeping and cleaning out aircraft and club house I eventually accumulated enough credits to be offered a flight, nirvana, I knew the theory of flight, how a plane flew, controls, how to fly, but-- did not realise I suffered from incurable vertigo, --the whole tenet of my life had changed in one illness inducing trip in an open front cockpit, no more National Service with the R.A.F. and pilot training.
Eventually I missed Nat. Service by a hairsbreadth anyway and have had an interesting but different life to the one planned (at 15 years old) but still remember sitting on the grass watching these beautiful but fragile looking machines doing their "cicuits & bumps".

Regards,

Philip
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

Thanks for that Philip - fascinating.

This is so HARD. I have so much biographical information on the pilots who undertook their ab initio flying training at Gravesend and I am in contact with several of the families. About half of them flew N-5490. I want to assemble their bios from what I have but it is SO hard to do these incredible heroes justice - I am in awe of all of them and don't want to short change any of them. One even flew with Bader and many became fighter aces. Others perished in their cockpits. I have uploaded a few more tonight, and have about thirty more to go. All of what I am uploading will need a LOT of editing and expanding, so please bear with me as the research unfolds.

My ultimate goal is to restore this Tiger to pristine 1938 specification as a flying testament and living memorial to these true heroes.
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

I received this e-mail from Bill Clark this morning. Bill is a friend of David Hinds.

"Ian

I believe you have already been given my name as a Tiger Moth Trainee Pilot in 1940 but that I had no connection with your specific aircraft etc.

I am very pleased to have been pointed to your website and found it fascinating.

It was a huge surprise to see the photos of Gravesend Airport as it was then known and, as a "flying/aviation mad keen eighteen-year old" spent many an hour on the outside of that place watching the newly formed 20 ERFTS Tigers performing and it was this that induced me to apply to the RAFVR to train as a Pilot at Gravesend's sister airport, Rochester, also in Kent. I was successful in my application but it was not until WWII was underway that I was called to commence my flying training on Tigers. By this time most training establishments had moved away from the southern part of England and so I trained in The Midlands at Desford EFTS on the western side of the City of Leicester.

At the end of my training in various other places in the UK I flew off the aircraft carrier Ark Royal in a long range Hurricane Mk II to Malta and later went on to join other Fighter Pilots in squadrons in the Egyptian and Libyan Deserts in 1941/42.

As you would expect I am now a 92 year old person but still very much interested in all things aviational concerning WWII.

I will continue to look on your website for updates of your project and wish you every success in this venture.

With very Best regards,

Will Clark"
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

And remember this from page 1 of this thread?

Image

This was the spinning extract from Mike Lithgow's training on N-5490. Note the instructor's name.

Here he is:

http://www.trasksdad.com/PopsProgress/c ... m#Chapters

I received this e-mail from his son this morning:

"Dear Ian,

When my father moved from Bexleyheath, Kent, he left a lot of stuff in the attic at the old house. It is a great pity that one of the items that he left was his log book, particularly as I would loved to have had it after he passed away in 1999. It would have been a mine of information and I would dearly loved to use all that information as ;part of the Web Site that I was able to put together at http://www.trasksdad.com/PopsProgress. If you look at the site you will see that he kept an amazing amount of stuff from his time in the RAF, including photographs and training excerpts, but not the most important item, his log book. The chap who bought his house called him to ask if he wanted it, but my father told him not to bother. It's possible that it is still available so I will see if the current owner still has it. I can't remember the address, but my brother may be able to tell me. I'll call him tomorrow and see if he can remember.

Pete Porter"
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

And this moving e-mail from Bill this morning - I thought it well worth sharing:

"Ian

I have just airmailed you the last copy I have printed, (must order more from publisher) of my Memoirs and hope you find it of interest.

Before I retired in 1982 as a School Headmaster, I had joined a group of men who met at Rochester Airport, Kent, for the purpose of restoring mostly WWII aircraft to museum and flying status. We were an off-shoot of the local branch of The Royal Aeronautical Engineering Society attached to The Marconi Avionics Co. UK. who has a large factory at that site.

We were known as MAPS,( Medway Aeronautical Preservation Society,) and had a large workshop by the airport hangars. Here we could work on the fuselages and detached wings of mainly Hurricanes and Spitfires, some of which had been "Gate Gardians" at various RAF establishments in UK, but also on some other types including a B & P Defiant Night - Fighter and a Fairey Battle. We were the moving factor in establishing a Museum at Manston Airfield Ex-RAF in Kent where there is now a Spitfire and a Hurricane that we restored together with other items of interest , all inside a specially built building.

We restored another Mark I Spitfire to its original specification which I believe is unique. I worked for several months on another Spitfire that was later acquired by an American and flown away from Rochester before transportation to USA.

Unfortunately I had to cease my activities at Rochester when my ex-WAAF wife and I moved from Kent to be near her sisters in The Midlands here at Nottingham. I have kept in touch with the group and send part of the profits from the sales of my books, and also some copies of the book themselves for sale at their workshop, to The Group for their funds as they have little help from outside sources. Like you they are finding acquiring scarce WWII spares difficult to find and then pay for to the extent that wherever possible we fabricated from plans and pattens brand new items.

Not being an engineer I was mostly engaged in cleaning rusted bits and pieces, occasionally , under strict supervision, making some small part but mostly I was The Store Keeper of the items kept under lock and key for the flying versions and needing Certification by the Aviation Engineers when used.

I am fortunate in having younger friends who include me in their visits to our excellent Aeronautical Museums, e.g. Duxford, Cosford, Hendon, and other more local ones at ex-RAF airfields.

Sadly I am now about the only survivor of those Desert days of 274 Sqdn. RAF. after having managed to contact so many of the survivors in the Eighties, Nineties and even , this century. Every year seemed to bring sad news of yet another who was no longer with us until now I do not hear from anyone.

My only surviving child, a daughter, now lives and works in USA and , together with her husband, has become an American citizen. My two grandchildren are at Colleges/Universities in Pennsylvania and all four are most happy with their lives there. My late wife and myself were never able to make the journey to The States and have had to rely on The Family visiting us here.

I had hoped to send you a current photo but so fan I cannot find a way to downsize it. Maybe sometime!

Again , I wish you every success in your restoration but wonder if I will be around when the day comes to roll out your very own Tiger Moth and take to the air.

As ever,

Will C."
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

This weekend I shifted the N-5490 website to its new permanent home at http://www.N5490.org and greatly expanded the content of the site. Enjoy reading.
plj
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:23 am

Re: N5490

Post by plj »

Ian, Tad earlier than your wonderful plane but might make a suitable trophy for something aeronautical.

Regards,

Philipfile:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/HISTORIC%20AVIATION%20Pint%20Tankard%20P.S.Clifford%20june%201931%20%20%20eBay.htm

Hope I've done this right, not too good at saving and pasting or whatever it's called.

P.
plj
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:23 am

Re: N5490

Post by plj »

Hmm, Looks like a load of rubbish, item is on e-bay under aeronautical bits & pieces, 1931 inscribed tankard.
Sam Christie
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:37 am

Re: N5490

Post by Sam Christie »

I am sure many await the outcome of the Burma Spitfire excavations with excitement but press speculation quoting ever growing numbers (started at 20 and now stands at about 120) pristine aircraft just waiting to be assembled seems over optimistic. A deep hole in Burmah must have filled with water very fast. It reminds me of the underwater Minor. Whatever became of it?

Image
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

Hi Sam,

Yes, also watching for news from Burma. The latest I saw last week was that they have found a crate, but it is full of muddy water which they are pumping out, and that could take some time. Personally, I'd be surprised if they find any Spits, and shocked if anything can be found that could be got airworthy. On the other hand, what a compelling tale - you never quite know!

On the subject of Spits, I am booked to fly one next July (2014). The Boultbee Flight Academy (http://www.boultbeeflightacademy.co.uk/) at Goodwood offers a one-day course where you get to fly a Tiger Moth, a Harvard and then 40 minutes in a two-seater Spitfire T9. The cost? Worth every penny! :o :o :o

As for the thing from the deep, Simon Hodgins managed to save a few bits and pieces, but most of it was pretty far gone, so the car's identity will remain the secret of the canal forever, unless some fisherman happens to snag the chassis plate at some point!
ashford
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:54 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: N5490

Post by ashford »

Until recently our local village shop had a spitfire engine used to weigh down the exterior fruit and veg stall along with a calthorpe axle and GPO morris 8 engine! The shop closed a few years ago but the engine is now stored safely inside. The owner unearthed it in the 1950s in a bog on Bodmin Moor where a Spitfire MK IV Griffon crashed just after the war. The rest of the plane is still thought to be there in a million pieces. Local newspapers at the time reported that the pilot was sadly killed.
Ian Grace
Site Admin
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 am
Location: USA

Re: N5490

Post by Ian Grace »

Looks like a bit of an update is due here. It's been a very busy year collecting spares and replacement parts. When I stripped the wings of fabric, I discovered that someone had over-tightened the bolts attaching the strut brackets and crushed the spruce spars - to the point of scrap. So the main task this year has been to source eight replacements which I now have. I have also recently sourced a pair of original fore and aft levels for the two cockpits. These are simply glass tube arrangements filled with coloured liquid - a bit like a vertical spirit level to indicate the aircraft's climb/descent angle. All very high tech in 1938!

But most of my aircraft restoration work this year has been concentrated on the Queen Bee V4760. The Queen Bee was the pilotless cousin of the Tiger Moth – and I acquired V4760 at the beginning of the year in a pretty rough but restorable state. This aircraft was built by de Havillands in 1940 at Hatfield, Hertfordshire. Queen Bees were originally used as radio-controlled target drones for gunnery practice. Some 400 of them were built and issued to various coastal batteries where they were fitted with floats and launched by massive catapult, then flown up and down remotely at about 7,000 feet while the gunners took pot shots at them. If they survived, they were equipped to auto-land on the water, then collected by ship and returned for another go. The technology was amazing for the time. The aircraft could be flown by a real pilot in the front cockpit - for ferry flights, test flights to set up the auto controls, etc., while the rear cockpit was crammed full of radios, batteries, pneumatics, etc. Of course, I won't be refitting all of that. Instead I will fit a set of conventional controls, thus converting it into a 2-seater like the Tiger. But I will be retaining a wealth of original fittings and equipment where it does not interfere with the rear cockpit occupant or his controls.

The reason this particular Queen Bee survived the gunners, and the war, was because after being damaged by flak on 21st May 1941, and then repaired, it was shipped in late 1941 to Wright Field, near Dayton, Ohio where it was evaluated by the US Army Air Corps. After the war it was sold to Pathé News who used it as an early aerial newsreel gathering machine - a task now performed almost exclusively by news helicopters. It was then used to take air-to-air film for the 1957 classic 'Spirit of St. Louis' starring James Stewart, after which it did the rounds with a couple of museums before ending up in my garage.

If you have visited my Tiger Moth website (http://www.N5490.org), you'll know that I have put in a good deal of effort to trace and research the pilots who flew this aircraft during the war. But since the Queen Bee was pilotless, it was unlikely that I would ever turn up anyone who had flown it. Or so it seemed.

This week I received an e-mail from a chap in England whose father had carried out the initial autopilot test flights of this aircraft! He flew it on three occasions during May 1941 at RAF St. Athan - home of the Pilotless Aircraft Unit (PAU). He actually flight tested a total of 163 Queen Bees at the time and received an Air Force Cross for his work. He was able to send me his father's complete logbook (a 96-page .pdf file) which makes fascinating reading and is a vast source of research material for Queen Bee operations in general.

But there's more. He was able to put me in contact with another chap whose father was the RAF test pilot seconded to Wright Field with the Queen Bee in 1942, where he flew it for 23 hours, 10 minutes between March and May on 1942. This was Sqn Ldr Peter Bathurst who had been the CO of the PAU at RAF St. Athan prior to his US posting. His son Ben has now sent me his father's logbook entries for the Queen Bee flight testing at Wright Field. He is Ben Bathurst - or more accurately retired Admiral of the Fleet Sir David Benjamin Bathurst GCB DL. So now I have the logbooks for two pilots who flew V4760 – not bad for a pilotless aircraft!

The DH Queen Bee was the first successful pilotless aircraft in aviation history – now known as drones. There are three survivors and V4760 is the oldest and most original, the other two having been built towards the end of the war. Thus, V4760 is the world’s oldest surviving pilotless drone.
Post Reply